Start/Stop Thoughts

[CLR]

Makes sense. Even we accept 10% savings, I find auto start-stop an annoyance given the general power delay* (see that thread) I experience driving around town in the 30-50 mph range (i.e. when auto start-stop is most active). The last thing I need is an additional delay as the engine goes from off to on; even if we accept 10% savings it's "not worth it" for the Sport at least.

I‘m not sure I understand the issue you’re describing. This system is only active when the vehicle comes to a stop. Otherwise the engine is always on.

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[Colonel Angus]

I run in "Sport" mode most of the time and that turns auto on/off to off by default. I have noticed when using AO/O there is a longer delay from the time you release the brake to the time the engine starts than in other vehicles I have/had. The thing about it that annoys make most is when I pull into my driveway and park the engine shuts off before I can put the tranny into "Park". Then there is the quick restart when placed in "Park" and off with the Stop/ Start button.

 

[PugDad]

I believe I've given my position on this in another thread but for the sake of discussion:

1. I find Auto Stop/Start obnoxious for a variety of reasons. Automakers put it in more to cheese the EPA test for an extra 1-2MPG for CAFE requirements than anything else. The reduction of heating/cooling and the wear is not great.
2. There can be an incremental benefit to automatic/stop start if you are in heavy traffic very much stop and go (not just inching along) in terms of emissions, theoretically 5-7%.
3. An auto-start stop eliminator that plugs in through the "driver link connector" (plug between the OBDII reader and the harness behind it) is easy to install, easy to remove, and simple in purpose. It doesn't modify the car software so easy to remove as a variable before dealer service if you even suspect it could be interfering with something (but the likelihood is low; it's just memory emulating your last push of the switch whenever the car starts).
4. If you prefer to save money and push the switch in a car start up routine (push start, push auto start/stop switch, seatbelt, plug in phone) - power to you.
5. If you want to code it out in FORScan rather than pay for an eliminator, go ahead, but I don't know if it can be flagged by dealership diagnostics that such changes were made and when.
6. I don't really like the idea of running something off the inverter to prevent automatic start/stop from coming on, even if it's a relatively low draw like a night light, but everyone is free to do what they want. 12V power on traditional outlets is what the car is generally running, an inverter is an appliance intended to be used infrequently that's being used non-stop...
7. If you're just running the radio and maybe charging a cell phone, then maybe automatic start/stop is fine for the battery, but if you run more aftermarket accessories, then it's probably not great. My dashcam draws 6 watts, my cell phone booster 23 watts, and my radar detector ~4 watts, for a total draw around 43 watts... that's like leaving a laptop plugged into your car, plus all the other load.)*

As a general comment with all the above - I've seen the voltage changes with automatic stop/start on and the swings are drastic. I can't imagine it's good in for the battery to be going from 14.8 to 14.9V to 12.6 and then draining to about 11.9 before the car decides "let's kick the engine on even though we're not moving". I feel like it has a high chance of moving emissions from the tailpipe to the cost to manufacture/ship/install/etc. replacement batteries and parts.


(* I'm going to say that I don't think Ford's powerpoint timeout default of 1hr10min is great on your battery either if you have continuously powered accessories that aren't unplugged when the car is turned off... I changed mine to 5s after key out/door open in FORScan.)

Well said and very informative.
Could you please expand on the last paragraph, I am not understanding what this is referring to.

 

[Bronclahoma]

I will be honest.

I DID NOT know about the stop/start feature until the car was already signed for and purchased. I took maybe a 5 minute test drive and it didn't do it during the drive. Salespeson didn't mention it. So it really caught me by surprise. At first, I was like "oh no; this has got to change". But since it took me a couple of days to 'process' what was going on....I've kind of learned to live with it.

On one hand, I like the fact that I'm saving gas.

But on the other hand, I'm worried about long term wear and tear on the starter.

So far, I haven't reached over to turn it off. If it can save me a few bucks in gas, then so be it. But I just wonder how many people drive with this feature/bug.

I doesn't use the starter to restart the engine.

 

[Bronclahoma]

A possible cheap cure for those who hate s/s. I just turn it off when I get in the car. On another brand vehicle I bought a trailer plug and cut off the wires at the plug. Plugged it and the vehicle thought I was pulling a trailer and disabled the s/s. Don't know if Broncos do this or not. It could possibly change the shift points as well.

Mark you know anything about this?

 

[Mark S.]

My dashcam draws 6 watts, my cell phone booster 23 watts, and my radar detector ~4 watts, for a total draw around 43 watts... that's like leaving a laptop plugged into your car, plus all the other load.)

43 watts at 12 VDC equals 3.5 amps. Given the average car battery contains some 50-60 amp/hours of power, 3.5 amps is really a trivial number.

 

[gatornek]

I have no problem with it. That and auto brake hold make sitting at long lights more relaxing- no vibrations and no foot on the brake.

If I want the motor to stay on, it’s trivial to modulate the brake pedal in such a way that it stays or turns on while the BS is stationary.

This is the conclusion I've pretty much come to.

 

[CLR]

I run in "Sport" mode most of the time and that turns auto on/off to off by default. I have noticed when using AO/O there is a longer delay from the time you release the brake to the time the engine starts than in other vehicles I have/had. The thing about it that annoys make most is when I pull into my driveway and park the engine shuts off before I can put the tranny into "Park". Then there is the quick restart when placed in "Park" and off with the Stop/ Start button.

That is annoying for sure. That being said it works fine to turn it off while still in drive and it will automatically go into park.

My routine- pull into driveway, activate front cam so I can get right up against the garage, put foot on brake (stops motor), press power button to turn off, press parking brake to engage. Get out and lock.

 

[coopny]

Well said and very informative.
Could you please expand on the last paragraph, I am not understanding what this is referring to.

When you turn the engine off, the default for the powerpoints (a combo of USB-A, USB-C, and 12V traditional "cigarette lighter" plugs) by default remain active for one hour and ten minutes. There is some play for this, as the battery gets older/less capacity the battery management system can override this.

Effectively if you're either using low draw devices, or devices that generally get unplugged if you leave the car (like cell phones, since people generally take them with them), not a big deal. But if you have devices that persistently remain on (like dashcams, radar detectors, cell phone boosters) because they're not unplugged, it's an effective wasteful load on your battery while the alternator isn't running. This is compounded if you make several longer stops a day, and if your drives are not that long to let the alternator recharge the battery.

43 watts at 12 VDC equals 3.5 amps. Given the average car battery contains some 50-60 amp/hours of power, 3.5 amps is really a trivial number.

So let's say I do a 5 minute drive to town and eat lunch for an hour, then drive back. I didn't really give that much time for the battery to re-charge, and gave it a 7 amp ding. Now compound that with some idle draw for things like Fordpass and not driving every day (I work from home generally), and you have a recipe for quick discharge of the battery. Even if the alternator later compensates for this, it's extra load on the car and charge/discharge of the battery, which can shorten its life.

I'm not saying that it's a problem for everyone based on either not having a lot of accessory power draw, or having driving habits that allow the alternator to run enough for it to be a moot point, but it can be a problem if you don't drive daily and have shorter drives with multiple stops. IMO, it should be a configureable preference in the Sync 3 settings, but instead the configuration of the option is only exposed via programming in FORScan.

 

[Hot Rod Mike]

As I've stated before, if auto start stop is functioning properly, it's transparent.

Thro it away

 

[67L48]

FORScan for the win. Others drop $100 for an eliminator ... I like the free option better.

 

[TRWXXA]

I doesn't use the starter to restart the engine.

According to Ford's own website information on the AS/S feature, "...the vehicle is equipped with a heavy-duty starter and battery to help compensate for a high number of starts and stops."

I know what you are thinking, though. Some manufacturers' auto start/stop systems stop the engine with a cylinder locked, on compression, after TDC. It then releases to engine, and uses the compressed air in the cylinder to crank the engine.

Ford's uses the starter which, in my personal experience, takes a beat or two longer to get the engine running again, than the compression system does.

 

[gatornek]

When you turn the engine off, the default for the powerpoints (a combo of USB-A, USB-C, and 12V traditional "cigarette lighter" plugs) by default remain active for one hour and ten minutes. There is some play for this, as the battery gets older/less capacity the battery management system can override this.

Effectively if you're either using low draw devices, or devices that generally get unplugged if you leave the car (like cell phones, since people generally take them with them), not a big deal. But if you have devices that persistently remain on (like dashcams, radar detectors, cell phone boosters) because they're not unplugged, it's an effective wasteful load on your battery while the alternator isn't running. This is compounded if you make several longer stops a day, and if your drives are not that long to let the alternator recharge the battery.

This is the part that concerns me the most about adding an aftermarket amp. Essentially, anytime you trip the touch/motion around the vehicle, you are going on to kick on a high draw item...even if its not currently pushing any sound. I ran into this issue in my Mustang.

 

[RSH]

Thro it away

You can always turn it off. As said, it's transparent when working properly.

 

[rocks]

According to Ford's own website information on the AS/S feature, "...the vehicle is equipped with a heavy-duty starter and battery to help compensate for a high number of starts and stops."

I know what you are thinking, though. Some manufacturers' auto start/stop systems stop the engine with a cylinder locked, on compression, after TDC. It then releases to engine, and uses the compressed air in the cylinder to crank the engine.

Ford's uses the starter which, in my personal experience, takes a beat or two longer to get the engine running again, than the compression system does.

With all the battery issues, I guess the battery isn't that strong.

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