sajohnson

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Hi Zack,

I just placed an order for a BS Badlands 3 days ago, but I can cancel it. I'm considering canceling it anyway because *after* the order was placed, a copy was emailed to me and it had/has the wrong interior color (Active Orange). I'm told that Area 51 has been eliminated by Ford (is that your understanding?). So we're paying full MSRP, plus a $500 doc fee (legal max in MD) and not getting the color we want.

My wife and I visit Iowa once or twice a year to see family -- some live near Granger, in Altoona and Mitchellville. That would make picking up a Badlands relatively easy.

6% under invoice sure is attractive. I have one primary concern, and that's getting warranty repairs done locally here in Maryland. Most people have heard the term "Iowa Nice" -- let's just say there is no "Maryland Nice". Dealers around here (all makes) -- and, from what I've heard, in most areas of the country -- do not like to do warranty work. If the vehicle as purchased from them, they are generally OK with it, but if the vehicle as bought at another dealer they can be very 'difficult'. That's based on ugly personal experiences with at least 4-5 different dealer service depts (4 mfrs) -- and numerous posts on the auto forums I belong to.

Is there anything that can be done about that?
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Hi Zack,

I just placed an order for a BS Badlands 3 days ago, but I can cancel it. I'm considering canceling it anyway because *after* the order was placed, a copy was emailed to me and it had/has the wrong interior color (Active Orange). I'm told that Area 51 has been eliminated by Ford (is that your understanding?). So we're paying full MSRP, plus a $500 doc fee (legal max in MD) and not getting the color we want.

My wife and I visit Iowa once or twice a year to see family -- some live near Granger, in Altoona and Mitchellville. That would make picking up a Badlands relatively easy.

6% under invoice sure is attractive. I have one primary concern, and that's getting warranty repairs done locally here in Maryland. Most people have heard the term "Iowa Nice" -- let's just say there is no "Maryland Nice". Dealers around here (all makes) -- and, from what I've heard, in most areas of the country -- do not like to do warranty work. If the vehicle as purchased from them, they are generally OK with it, but if the vehicle as bought at another dealer they can be very 'difficult'. That's based on ugly personal experiences with at least 4-5 different dealer service depts (4 mfrs) -- and numerous posts on the auto forums I belong to.

Is there anything that can be done about that?

Well I certainly have heard mixed reviews based upon service departments. Certainly Ford wants to make sure you're taken car of and I know in our service department we'd like to view a new customer as an opportunity to earn someone's business.

I can tell you this inventory shortage has caused more and more people to buy our of their normal area because if a lack of availability. So I would imagine service departments will have to get used to servicing more than just their own sold units. I guess that's probably a good excuse for you if they give you a hard time.

We have a couple of our employees that live in the Altoona area, so that's not far at all.
 

sajohnson

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Well I certainly have heard mixed reviews based upon service departments. Certainly Ford wants to make sure you're taken car of and I know in our service department we'd like to view a new customer as an opportunity to earn someone's business.

I can tell you this inventory shortage has caused more and more people to buy our of their normal area because if a lack of availability. So I would imagine service departments will have to get used to servicing more than just their own sold units. I guess that's probably a good excuse for you if they give you a hard time.

We have a couple of our employees that live in the Altoona area, so that's not far at all.
Thanks Zach. I have no doubt that *your* service dept would act rationally, think long-term, and treat all warranty work equally, but I'm afraid that most dealers in larger urban areas are cut-throat, excessively greedy, and short-sighted. They seem to view warranty repairs as "losing money" because they pay less than ordinary jobs (both parts and labor). They are apparently only focused on their immediate revenue -- potentially earning someone's business down the road does not count for anything. That's the sad truth.

That said, with the potential savings being thousands of dollars, it may be worth the risk of dealing with bad attitudes. The good news is that CR predicts that the BS reliability will be much better than average. The not so good news is that there are currently 2 open recalls (rear brakes and fuel delivery module in the tank). Hopefully, going forward, all Bronco Sports coming off the line will have those 2 problems corrected.

Are you familiar with Ford eliminating the Area 51 interior? If it is not available they should pull it from their online build tool. Have you heard anything about when it will be available again?
 

sajohnson

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Separate question -- our order summary says, "This is not an invoice", and I noticed that the one you posted from Granger does too. I assume that means the price is not locked in/guaranteed -- is that right?

Our salesman said that the MSRP might increase between now and delivery (months from now) and we would be responsible for paying it. Is that how Granger operates also?
 

sajohnson

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I thought I'd point out that Granger has an excellent BBB record. Only one (1) complaint in the last 3 years:
https://www.bbb.org/us/ia/granger/profile/new-car-dealers/granger-motors-inc-0664-101336

There are no reviews, which is probably a good sign, because they are typically negative.

I have not yet looked at other sites like: Dealer Rater; Google; and Yelp.

Zach -- I am still curious about the answers to my questions above in posts 33 and 34.
 


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Separate question -- our order summary says, "This is not an invoice", and I noticed that the one you posted from Granger does too. I assume that means the price is not locked in/guaranteed -- is that right?

Our salesman said that the MSRP might increase between now and delivery (months from now) and we would be responsible for paying it. Is that how Granger operates also?
Sorry for the delay. In regards to the interior the 2022 order guide will show all options. I'm on my phone and not at work with the order guide through Ford's system. I'm sure it's posted in this site somewhere though for reference.

Your order summary once placed locks in pricing from the order date so you won't see a price bump if your dealer knows what to do correctly.
 

mustangmech

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Zach are you still offering the 6% below dealer invoice? Didn’t not see a cut off, but it’s been a while since the original post. Thx.
 

sajohnson

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Sorry for the delay. In regards to the interior the 2022 order guide will show all options. I'm on my phone and not at work with the order guide through Ford's system. I'm sure it's posted in this site somewhere though for reference.

Your order summary once placed locks in pricing from the order date so you won't see a price bump if your dealer knows what to do correctly.
No problem on the delay. As it happens, I just now saw your reply because I had been having a strange problem where I could not see any posts here on the BSF -- but all other websites were fine. A restart of my laptop resolved the issue.

The salesman notified us that there was a problem on Ford's end that had blocked all Area 51 interior orders, but that had been straightened out and he was able to change ours to Area 51. He sent us a corrected Order Summary. So that's been taken care of.

You said:

"Your order summary once placed locks in pricing from the order date so you won't see a price bump if your dealer knows what to do correctly."

That sounds right to me (how it should be), but the salesman said more than once that "Ford might have a price increase, and you'll have to pay that."

I've heard that the order summary has to be signed by the sales manager (at a minimum) in order for the price to be locked in, and that even then the dealership is not obligated to honor the price on the Order Summary. Does that sound right?

How does Granger handle it? Does the sales manager (or someone higher up) sign the Order Summary, or is there some law and/or Ford franchise agreement policy that states that the price indicated on the Order Summary is fixed?

If the price is fixed, why does the form say, "This is not an invoice"?

Needless to say, after ordering, paying full MSRP + $500 doc fee, and then waiting 6 months (or much longer) I do not want any surprises. Ford price bumps would be bad enough, but what I'm really concerned about are "market adjustments" after our Badlands is delivered. Apparently Ford does not think 'gotcha' surprises like that violate Paragraph 6 of the agreement -- so there's nothing to stop an unethical dealer from attempting to extort trusting customers.

I've read enough horror stories to know it happens frequently -- with all mfrs of course, not just Ford. The worst I've heard of is a guy who ordered a $120,000 Mercedes EV. The guy was ready to take delivery and the dealer said they wanted $50,000 additional! He walked and bought a different EV. There are any number of similar stories. The "ransom" may be lower but the M.O. is the same -- the buyer waits patiently for months and when their vehicle finally arrives the dealer slaps a fat markup on it.

I should say, I have no specific reason to think our local dealer will do that, but they did refuse to sign, and they specifically told us we would have to eat all Ford price increases. So, not confidence inspiring.

I can cancel the order at any time. They'd be happy if I did, because then they would definitely sell it for thousands over MSRP. You may end up getting us as customers yet.
 

mustangmech

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No problem on the delay. As it happens, I just now saw your reply because I had been having a strange problem where I could not see any posts here on the BSF -- but all other websites were fine. A restart of my laptop resolved the issue.

The salesman notified us that there was a problem on Ford's end that had blocked all Area 51 interior orders, but that had been straightened out and he was able to change ours to Area 51. He sent us a corrected Order Summary. So that's been taken care of.

You said:

"Your order summary once placed locks in pricing from the order date so you won't see a price bump if your dealer knows what to do correctly."

That sounds right to me (how it should be), but the salesman said more than once that "Ford might have a price increase, and you'll have to pay that."

I've heard that the order summary has to be signed by the sales manager (at a minimum) in order for the price to be locked in, and that even then the dealership is not obligated to honor the price on the Order Summary. Does that sound right?

How does Granger handle it? Does the sales manager (or someone higher up) sign the Order Summary, or is there some law and/or Ford franchise agreement policy that states that the price indicated on the Order Summary is fixed?

If the price is fixed, why does the form say, "This is not an invoice"?

Needless to say, after ordering, paying full MSRP + $500 doc fee, and then waiting 6 months (or much longer) I do not want any surprises. Ford price bumps would be bad enough, but what I'm really concerned about are "market adjustments" after our Badlands is delivered. Apparently Ford does not think 'gotcha' surprises like that violate Paragraph 6 of the agreement -- so there's nothing to stop an unethical dealer from attempting to extort trusting customers.

I've read enough horror stories to know it happens frequently -- with all mfrs of course, not just Ford. The worst I've heard of is a guy who ordered a $120,000 Mercedes EV. The guy was ready to take delivery and the dealer said they wanted $50,000 additional! He walked and bought a different EV. There are any number of similar stories. The "ransom" may be lower but the M.O. is the same -- the buyer waits patiently for months and when their vehicle finally arrives the dealer slaps a fat markup on it.

I should say, I have no specific reason to think our local dealer will do that, but they did refuse to sign, and they specifically told us we would have to eat all Ford price increases. So, not confidence inspiring.

I can cancel the order at any time. They'd be happy if I did, because then they would definitely sell it for thousands over MSRP. You may end up getting us as customers yet.
I understand your skepticism. If the norm is getting worked over out East then the norm in the midwest is honoring your word. There is too much competition for dealers to mess with their customers that can easily go somewhere else. Maybe that’s just my experience.
 

sajohnson

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I understand your skepticism. If the norm is getting worked over out East then the norm in the midwest is honoring your word. There is too much competition for dealers to mess with their customers that can easily go somewhere else. Maybe that’s just my experience.
I'm sure you're right -- at least in the more rural areas.

My wife and I have family in Iowa and Illinois. I grew up here from age 2, my wife from age 5 or 6. From the time I was a boy, I can recall relatives visiting from Cedar Rapids and Clinton asking, "what's wrong with these people?" -- because they were used to "Iowa Nice".

Even today, when we go to Iowa City, towns near Des Moines, and particularly the small towns north of Waterloo where my wife's relatives live, there's just a different feel. I'm not suggesting it is Shangri-La, but people are friendlier and usually in a better mood. One example -- we have a small RV on a Dodge(MB) Sprinter cab-chassis. MB recommends no more than 5% biodiesel. My wife and I stopped at a station in Raymond (east of Waterloo) and the pumps weren't marked, so I asked the girl working there if she knew the % biodiesel. Here in MD, the reply would likely be a blank stare or a flat, "No". She was really sweet and apologetic, and actually called the owner to find out. I told her not to bother him but she insisted. I ended up speaking with him, and he was really nice as well. Again, that's just one random example.

That said, there is definitely competition here as well, but it's like they've all agreed to play the same games with customers, so buyers cannot go down the road and expect that dealer to be better. To be fair, there are differences between some of them.

My guess would be that like most businesses in rural areas and small towns, car dealers know that their reputation is everything. They have roots in the community. Their customer base is pretty well fixed. In large urban areas, the population is transitory. If a business rips off someone, there are always new suckers -- I mean customers -- coming along.
 
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I thought non-refundable deposits are illegal in all states?
 

sajohnson

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Some interesting and potentially helpful info from a Ford dealer in Salina, Kansas:

"Episode 22: How to Combat the Unexpected Dealer Fees on your Ordered Vehicle"


In the video he referred to this Reddit post:

 

sajohnson

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I just put an order in for a Bronco Sport Outer Banks at 6% under invoice. Zack was great and super helpful. Can't wait until it arrives!
Congrats!

I may be talking with Zack myself if our dealer tries the last minute "additional dealer markup" extortion trick. I have no reason to think they will, but it does happen.
 
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No problem on the delay. As it happens, I just now saw your reply because I had been having a strange problem where I could not see any posts here on the BSF -- but all other websites were fine. A restart of my laptop resolved the issue.

The salesman notified us that there was a problem on Ford's end that had blocked all Area 51 interior orders, but that had been straightened out and he was able to change ours to Area 51. He sent us a corrected Order Summary. So that's been taken care of.

You said:

"Your order summary once placed locks in pricing from the order date so you won't see a price bump if your dealer knows what to do correctly."

That sounds right to me (how it should be), but the salesman said more than once that "Ford might have a price increase, and you'll have to pay that."

I've heard that the order summary has to be signed by the sales manager (at a minimum) in order for the price to be locked in, and that even then the dealership is not obligated to honor the price on the Order Summary. Does that sound right?

How does Granger handle it? Does the sales manager (or someone higher up) sign the Order Summary, or is there some law and/or Ford franchise agreement policy that states that the price indicated on the Order Summary is fixed?

If the price is fixed, why does the form say, "This is not an invoice"?

Needless to say, after ordering, paying full MSRP + $500 doc fee, and then waiting 6 months (or much longer) I do not want any surprises. Ford price bumps would be bad enough, but what I'm really concerned about are "market adjustments" after our Badlands is delivered. Apparently Ford does not think 'gotcha' surprises like that violate Paragraph 6 of the agreement -- so there's nothing to stop an unethical dealer from attempting to extort trusting customers.

I've read enough horror stories to know it happens frequently -- with all mfrs of course, not just Ford. The worst I've heard of is a guy who ordered a $120,000 Mercedes EV. The guy was ready to take delivery and the dealer said they wanted $50,000 additional! He walked and bought a different EV. There are any number of similar stories. The "ransom" may be lower but the M.O. is the same -- the buyer waits patiently for months and when their vehicle finally arrives the dealer slaps a fat markup on it.

I should say, I have no specific reason to think our local dealer will do that, but they did refuse to sign, and they specifically told us we would have to eat all Ford price increases. So, not confidence inspiring.

I can cancel the order at any time. They'd be happy if I did, because then they would definitely sell it for thousands over MSRP. You may end up getting us as customers yet.
Your pricing is locked in at the time of ordering and you shouldn't receive a price increase. Ford price protects dealers so if they deliver to the person who ordered the car (name/address match) they automatically get reimbursed for price protection.

For your security if you have an offer signed by the store it certainly helps protect you. We do not do that as a practice unless a customer requests it. We've always stood behind our word as well.

Hope that helps.
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