Why AGM Car Batteries Are The Future

Dude

Badlands
Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2022
Threads
81
Messages
3,228
Reaction score
3,346
Location
Arizona
Vehicle(s)
2022 Bronco Sport Badlands
Synopsis is below. Want to know more? …check out this link (a subscription to Popular Mechanics / Pop Mech Pro is needed to view the link’s information):

https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/a62953680/agm-car-battery-explainer/

source: Pop Mech
date: 1/5/2025

Automotive technology has advanced at ludicrous speed, yet modern automobiles still use battery technology that originated in the early 1900s. We should clarify we’re not referring to the battery packs in electric vehicles but the 12-volt battery under the hood of your gas-powered car. Nearly every vehicle you see on the road today uses a lead-acid battery to start the car and run basic electronics when the engine is off. So there has to be a better way, right?

Not exactly. The motorcycle industry is an interesting barometer as it’s enjoyed great success with lithium-ion batteries. Not only are these batteries much lighter than their lead-acid counterparts, but they also offer considerably more cranking power. So it sounds like everyone in the automotive industry would bite your arm off for one. Right? Not so, as these newer batteries experience a considerable performance drop in cold conditions and cost more than the “legacy” alternative.

The best solution in the interim is what’s called an Absorbed-Glass Mat Battery. It enjoys the reliability of a lead-acid battery while presenting impressive performance at a reasonable price.

How Do They Work?

Before we get any further, it would be slightly disingenuous to say lead-acid batteries haven’t changed at all during their life span. That simply isn’t true. The lead-acid chemistry is really all that’s remained from day one. Nearly everything else has changed with Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) batteries taking the industry by storm. For a crash course on how car batteries work, check out this Youtube video.

Invented in 1859, lead-acid batteries are brilliantly simple and capable. Just as the name implies, they use lead plates submerged into diluted sulphuric acid to sustain a controlled chemical reaction, giving the negative terminal a negative charge and vice versa for the positive terminal. When not in use, the electrons on the negative terminal inherently want to flow back to the positive terminal. They can’t move through the sulfuric acid solution, but can move through a completed circuit that allows them to flow where they want to go—when positive and negative are connected to a device that needs power.

Along with adding a plastic case for protection (and battery acid containment) these batteries have experienced substantial improvements under the hood—no pun intended.

All car batteries use lead-acid chemistry, but there are two different schools of thought. The legacy batteries that we were talking about above are called wet-cell batteries. And they’ve worked just fine for decades. However, newer vehicles with complex electrical systems and tech require much higher electrical demands making Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) batteries almost a necessity to keep them running properly.

Wet Cell Batteries
As mentioned above, conventional “wet cell” batteries use lead plates submerged into an electrolyte solution (battery acid) to sustain a controlled chemical reaction. Each battery has six cells, charged up to 2.1 volts each. While these have worked just fine for decades, Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) technology is a much newer variation on the lead-acid theme.

AGM Batteries
Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) batteries were originally developed in the 1960s to meet the high-performance demands of military aircraft. The move to replace the outdated Ni-Cad batteries was motivated by the need for superior performance, safety, and reliability that these military aircraft demanded—a list including fighter jets.

AGM batteries still function using the same principles as lead acid batteries. They use ultra-thin fiberglass mats to absorb battery acid instead of submerged lead plates—making them spill proof. However, the real genius with these thinner mats is they allow more battery acid to make contact with the lead plates. Thinner plates mean manufacturers can pack more of them in the same given space, making these batteries considerably more energy-dense than their wet-cell counterparts.

This technology showed up in the automotive world in much the same way it did with military aircraft thanks to the increased electrical demands of newer vehicles. In fact, most new vehicles actually need AGM batteries for standard equipment like stop-start, where the engine turns off when you come to a stop. That combined with the greater number of screens and onboard systems makes these more advanced batteries a necessity.

Lithium-Ion vs Lead Acid
Lithium-ion has often been included in the automotive battery conversation. However these batteries have never really come to fruition. The reason? They’re incredibly expensive, and not much better than the AGM batteries that we talked about above.

Interstate Batteries’ premium AGM option can supply 950 cranking amps, weighs 45 pounds, and costs less than $300. A comparably-sized Antigravity battery can supply 1500 cranking amps, weighs 16.5 pounds, and costs just under $1000.
Sponsored

 
Last edited:

Mwittke5857

Big Bend
Well-Known Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
Dec 29, 2023
Threads
5
Messages
679
Reaction score
901
Location
Elma, NY
Vehicle(s)
2021 Bronco
Synopsis is below. Want to know more? …check out this link (a subscription to Popular Mechanics / Pop Mech Pro is needed to view the link’s information):

https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/a62953680/agm-car-battery-explainer/

source: Pop Mech
date: 1/5/2025

Automotive technology has advanced at ludicrous speed, yet modern automobiles still use battery technology that originated in the early 1900s. We should clarify we’re not referring to the battery packs in electric vehicles but the 12-volt battery under the hood of your gas-powered car. Nearly every vehicle you see on the road today uses a lead-acid battery to start the car and run basic electronics when the engine is off. So there has to be a better way, right?

Not exactly. The motorcycle industry is an interesting barometer as it’s enjoyed great success with lithium-ion batteries. Not only are these batteries much lighter than their lead-acid counterparts, but they also offer considerably more cranking power. So it sounds like everyone in the automotive industry would bite your arm off for one. Right? Not so, as these newer batteries experience a considerable performance drop in cold conditions and cost more than the “legacy” alternative.

The best solution in the interim is what’s called an Absorbed-Glass Mat Battery. It enjoys the reliability of a lead-acid battery while presenting impressive performance at a reasonable price.

How Do They Work?

Before we get any further, it would be slightly disingenuous to say lead-acid batteries haven’t changed at all during their life span. That simply isn’t true. The lead-acid chemistry is really all that’s remained from day one. Nearly everything else has changed with Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) batteries taking the industry by storm. For a crash course on how car batteries work, check out this Youtube video.

Invented in 1859, lead-acid batteries are brilliantly simple and capable. Just as the name implies, they use lead plates submerged into diluted sulphuric acid to sustain a controlled chemical reaction, giving the negative terminal a negative charge and vice versa for the positive terminal. When not in use, the electrons on the negative terminal inherently want to flow back to the positive terminal. They can’t move through the sulfuric acid solution, but can move through a completed circuit that allows them to flow where they want to go—when positive and negative are connected to a device that needs power.

Along with adding a plastic case for protection (and battery acid containment) these batteries have experienced substantial improvements under the hood—no pun intended.

All car batteries use lead-acid chemistry, but there are two different schools of thought. The legacy batteries that we were talking about above are called wet-cell batteries. And they’ve worked just fine for decades. However, newer vehicles with complex electrical systems and tech require much higher electrical demands making Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) batteries almost a necessity to keep them running properly.

Wet Cell Batteries
As mentioned above, conventional “wet cell” batteries use lead plates submerged into an electrolyte solution (battery acid) to sustain a controlled chemical reaction. Each battery has six cells, charged up to 2.1 volts each. While these have worked just fine for decades, Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) technology is a much newer variation on the lead-acid theme.

AGM Batteries
Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) batteries were originally developed in the 1960s to meet the high-performance demands of military aircraft. The move to replace the outdated Ni-Cad batteries was motivated by the need for superior performance, safety, and reliability that these military aircraft demanded—a list including fighter jets.

AGM batteries still function using the same principles as lead acid batteries. They use ultra-thin fiberglass mats to absorb battery acid instead of submerged lead plates—making them spill proof. However, the real genius with these thinner mats is they allow more battery acid to make contact with the lead plates. Thinner plates mean manufacturers can pack more of them in the same given space, making these batteries considerably more energy-dense than their wet-cell counterparts.

This technology showed up in the automotive world in much the same way it did with military aircraft thanks to the increased electrical demands of newer vehicles. In fact, most new vehicles actually need AGM batteries for standard equipment like stop-start, where the engine turns off when you come to a stop. That combined with the greater number of screens and onboard systems makes these more advanced batteries a necessity.

Lithium-Ion vs Lead Acid
Lithium-ion has often been included in the automotive battery conversation. However these batteries have never really come to fruition. The reason? They’re incredibly expensive, and not much better than the AGM batteries that we talked about above.

Interstate Batteries’ premium AGM option can supply 950 cranking amps, weighs 45 pounds, and costs less than $300. A comparably-sized Antigravity (I believe the author meant “Lithium-ion”) battery can supply 1500 cranking amps, weighs 16.5 pounds, and costs just under $1000.
Not so sure I agree with your assessment on lithium ion batteries. There does seem to be a lot of Teslas (and other EVs) out there not experiencing the battery performance drop off you referenced, at least here in the Western NY area
 
OP
OP
Dude

Dude

Badlands
Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2022
Threads
81
Messages
3,228
Reaction score
3,346
Location
Arizona
Vehicle(s)
2022 Bronco Sport Badlands
Not so sure I agree with your assessment on lithium ion batteries. There does seem to be a lot of Teslas (and other EVs) out there not experiencing the battery performance drop off you referenced, at least here in the Western NY area
I thought you might not agree

what’s the best lithium-ion 12V battery you’ve found for Bronco Sports?

btw… is not my assessment… the article is by pop mech pro (popular mechanics)
 

Mwittke5857

Big Bend
Well-Known Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
Dec 29, 2023
Threads
5
Messages
679
Reaction score
901
Location
Elma, NY
Vehicle(s)
2021 Bronco
I thought you might not agree

what’s the best lithium-ion 12V battery you’ve found for Bronco Sports?

btw… is not my assessment… the article is by pop mech pro (popular mechanics)
When the current (pun intended) battery fails, I intend to go with either Antigravity's or Dakota Lithium's H6/Group 48 40ah.
 
OP
OP
Dude

Dude

Badlands
Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2022
Threads
81
Messages
3,228
Reaction score
3,346
Location
Arizona
Vehicle(s)
2022 Bronco Sport Badlands
When the current (pun intended) battery fails, I intend to go with either Antigravity's or Dakota Lithium's H6/Group 48 40ah.
I like the pun. I should have googled Antigravity battery … I corrected the last paragraph in my original quote of the article.

thanks for the info on size for the Antigravity battery & Dakota Lithium!! That’s good info.

There are several things that concern me with use of lithium-ion batteries under the hood of a Bronco Sport.

I do not know the max temperature under the hood of a Bronco Sport under any operating condition, but from my experience working automotive electronics for GM, it’s quite extreme. I would have a concern with the temperature range of lithium-ion batteries among a few other concerns. However a quick read of the Group 48 size battery products does show automotive products including under hood but the lithium-ion product specs do not seem conducive to that. I’ll have to discuss with their technical support team.

Google shows this for typical Ford SUVs:
“Under normal operating conditions, the underhood temperature of most Ford SUVs can vary based on factors such as ambient temperature, engine load, and vehicle speed. Generally, underhood temperatures can range from approximately 140°F (60°C) to 220°F (104°C). For instance, during idle or in traffic on an 83°F (28°C) day, underhood air temperatures can exceed 140°F (60°C). “

I am also concerned about low temp usage of lithium-ion batteries. See my next post.
 
Last edited:


OP
OP
Dude

Dude

Badlands
Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2022
Threads
81
Messages
3,228
Reaction score
3,346
Location
Arizona
Vehicle(s)
2022 Bronco Sport Badlands
Below is a link for others to the Antigravity battery Group 48/H6 (40Ah) version.

https://antigravitybatteries.com/products/starter-batteries/automotive/ag-h6-rs/

Operational temp is listed at 23°F to 140°F according to Antigravity technical support and their tech support stated:

“Those temps are a little conservative to be honest as they can typically operate in lower...”

“Antigravity batteries have internal thermal sensor to prevent damage from operating in excessive heat… ...I have yet to see those sensors tripped so have not come across anything hot enough as of yet to trip them.”

What happens when excessive heat were to trigger the thermal sensor? Does the battery simply shut off rendering the vehicle powerless?
“correct, battery would shut down and interrupt the circuit.”

I didn’t ask but my guess is the the same thing would happen if the lower temp sensor were tripped.

https://antigravitybatteries.com/downloads/AG-Automotive-RS-Batteries-User-Manual.pdf
 

Mark S.

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Oct 30, 2021
Threads
118
Messages
6,487
Reaction score
12,510
Location
St. Jacob, IL
Vehicle(s)
2021 Badlands | 2020 Escape
Not so sure I agree with your assessment on lithium ion batteries. There does seem to be a lot of Teslas (and other EVs) out there not experiencing the battery performance drop off you referenced, at least here in the Western NY area
??? There are many, many reports of battery performance loss for Teslas in cold weather.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/teslas-electric-vehicles-cold-weather/

Even Tesla itself suggests some battery energy may not be available in cold weather.

https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_us/GUID-F907200E-A619-4A95-A0CF-94E0D03BEBEF.html

Cold Battery
Ford Bronco Sport Why AGM Car Batteries Are The Future {filename}
A blue snowflake icon appears on your touchscreen when some of the stored energy in the Battery is unavailable because the Battery is cold. This portion of unavailable energy displays in blue on the Battery meter. Regenerative braking, acceleration, and charging rates may be limited. The snowflake icon no longer displays when the Battery is sufficiently warm.
 

Mwittke5857

Big Bend
Well-Known Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
Dec 29, 2023
Threads
5
Messages
679
Reaction score
901
Location
Elma, NY
Vehicle(s)
2021 Bronco

Mark S.

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Oct 30, 2021
Threads
118
Messages
6,487
Reaction score
12,510
Location
St. Jacob, IL
Vehicle(s)
2021 Badlands | 2020 Escape
Yet they seem to run w/o a problem. At least in my area
I guess it depends on how you define problem. My post was in response to your claim that Tesla batteries do not experience a drop in performance in cold weather. If you know you're going to lose 30% of your range when it's cold then I guess it isn't a problem.
 
OP
OP
Dude

Dude

Badlands
Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2022
Threads
81
Messages
3,228
Reaction score
3,346
Location
Arizona
Vehicle(s)
2022 Bronco Sport Badlands
Possibly MarkS and Mwittke5857 are talking about two different applications of lithium-ion batteries. I could be wrong but I think MarkS is referring to known issues EVs like Tesla’s could experience with loss of battery capacity in cold areas and Mwittke5857 is talking about lithium-ion 12V batteries used in non-EV vehicle applications.
 


Meanderthal

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
Eric
Joined
Mar 19, 2022
Threads
10
Messages
2,149
Reaction score
3,083
Location
Belleville, IL
Vehicle(s)
'08 BMW R1200 GS Adv, '23 Norden Expedition
Possibly MarkS and Mwittke5857 are talking about two different applications of lithium-ion batteries. I could be wrong but I think MarkS is referring to known issues EVs like Tesla’s could experience with loss of battery capacity in cold areas and Mwittke5857 is talking about lithium-ion 12V batteries used in non-EV vehicle applications.
It would be interesting to know how Mwittke5857 would know about the performance of 12V lithium-ion batteries in the NY area. I'm pretty sure the comment was about Teslas moving about in the cold weather. As MarkS has stated, it is a widely known fact that EVs lose range in cold weather. I believe if they are being charged in cold weather (or just hooked to a charger in cold weather) the battery can be kept warm.
 
OP
OP
Dude

Dude

Badlands
Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2022
Threads
81
Messages
3,228
Reaction score
3,346
Location
Arizona
Vehicle(s)
2022 Bronco Sport Badlands
It would be interesting to know how Mwittke5857 would know about the performance of 12V lithium-ion batteries in the NY area. I'm pretty sure the comment was about Teslas moving about in the cold weather. As MarkS has stated, it is a widely known fact that EVs lose range in cold weather. I believe if they are being charged in cold weather (or just hooked to a charger in cold weather) the battery can be kept warm.
Yes that’s true but Post #1 is only about ICE … non-EVs … motorcycles, vehicles.

Post #1 specifically states:
“We should clarify we’re not referring to the battery packs in electric vehicles but the 12-volt battery under the hood of your gas-powered car.”

The paragraph Mwittke5857 took issue with is:

“The motorcycle industry is an interesting barometer as it’s enjoyed great success with lithium-ion batteries. Not only are these batteries much lighter than their lead-acid counterparts, but they also offer considerably more cranking power. So it sounds like everyone in the automotive industry would bite your arm off for one. Right? Not so, as these newer batteries experience a considerable performance drop in cold conditions and cost more than the “legacy” alternative.”

it’s the same when the topic is apples and someone states and off-comment about oranges to support their claim about apples. Just ignore the off-comment as it is irrelevant to the topic of apples.
 
OP
OP
Dude

Dude

Badlands
Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2022
Threads
81
Messages
3,228
Reaction score
3,346
Location
Arizona
Vehicle(s)
2022 Bronco Sport Badlands
The topic is AGM Batteries in ICE vehicles and it’s well known from other threads regarding Bronco Sport batteries that Mwittke5857 prefers a 12V lithium-ion battery when the time comes to replace the battery in his Bronco Sport (see his other threads on that topic and see Post #4)

teslas and many other EVs use auxiliary methods to keep the lithium-ion battery pack in an acceptable temperature range. A lithium-ion 12V battery in a Bronco Sport does not have auxiliary methods.

using Tesla as an example to justify a claim against performance drop is not applicable to a Bronco Sport use of a 12V lithium-ion battery and in fact there will be some performance drop with extreme temperatures for all lithium-ion batteries. But even on the topic of performance drops, have a look at the specs for the 40Ah Antigravity lithium-ion battery — it already has a very high CCA Spec. It’s just apples and oranges with teslas and broncos sports with a lithium-ion 12V battery.

And worse, the 12V lithium-ion batteries in question have a very narrow working temperature range - see Post #5 and #6.
 

Meanderthal

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
Eric
Joined
Mar 19, 2022
Threads
10
Messages
2,149
Reaction score
3,083
Location
Belleville, IL
Vehicle(s)
'08 BMW R1200 GS Adv, '23 Norden Expedition
it’s the same when the topic is apples and someone states and off-comment about oranges to support their claim about apples. Just ignore the off-comment as it is irrelevant to the topic of apples.
Not sure that this is truly an "apples and oranges" comment from @Mwittke5857, more likely just a misunderstanding, as I think @MarkS was trying to show. The lithium-ion batteries do still function at low temperatures, just at a lower capacity (as has been stated and is well known by those who have an interest).

Your comment about the batteries shutting down at low temps is probably jumping to a conclusion. At higher temps the battery shutting down is safety related, as they would not want a fire/explosion caused by the heat. Which reminds of another reason I personally would steer clear of lithium-ion in my vehicle.

You did mention motorcycle batteries and I believe (the last time I looked was a few years ago) those are generally LiFePo, which is different from what we generally think of as lithium-ion. I did have one of these in a motorcycle about 5 years ago and it worked great, until it got below a certain voltage and then it would no longer charge. That was probably due to an older charging system on an older motorcycle but it still left me stranded in the end.

I agree with you that for the most part, AGM is probably the correct choice. I do think the thread title is a little misleading since AGM has been widely available for decades. We all know OEMs are not using them much and that probably comes down to cost, though some BSs came with them in the pandemic years at least.
 

Mwittke5857

Big Bend
Well-Known Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
Dec 29, 2023
Threads
5
Messages
679
Reaction score
901
Location
Elma, NY
Vehicle(s)
2021 Bronco
Possibly MarkS and Mwittke5857 are talking about two different applications of lithium-ion batteries. I could be wrong but I think MarkS is referring to known issues EVs like Tesla’s could experience with loss of battery capacity in cold areas and Mwittke5857 is talking about lithium-ion 12V batteries used in non-EV vehicle applications.
Less we forget fuel milage varies with temp as well. In non-EV applications (i.e. std automotive), there is an alternator keeping the battery charged be it lead-acid, AGM or LI. Any battery if left unused will in time lose some of its charge, which is why there are "tenders". There is a reason LIs offer a 10 year warranty, they simply last longer. As for cost, considering regular (lead-acid/AGM) batteries tend to need replacement every three years. At current costs, they end up costing about the same as an LI. I suppose it boils down to preference.
Sponsored

 
 







Top