What a difference 91 octane makes in the 2.0 motor.

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SgtT11B

SgtT11B

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Very good point. The last thing most mfrs want to do is accept responsibility for potential problems.

That's reasonable. I'm leaning that way as well.

That's if intake valve deposits are ever a problem for us. We drive very little -- but when we do drive the engine gets fully warmed up.

Just curious -- why would you rather not install a catch can? I know very little about them but I'm getting ready to watch the "Engineering Explained" video here:
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/buying-maintenance/a27182434/how-oil-catch-can-works/

Off the top of my head, one issue might be -- what happens if the owner forgets to empty the can and it gets full?

Ford will void your warranty for a catch can. Any engine issues I would remove the catch can and return to stock before taking it in.
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Very good point. The last thing most mfrs want to do is accept responsibility for potential problems.

That's reasonable. I'm leaning that way as well.

That's if intake valve deposits are ever a problem for us. We drive very little -- but when we do drive the engine gets fully warmed up.

Just curious -- why would you rather not install a catch can? I know very little about them but I'm getting ready to watch the "Engineering Explained" video here:
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/buying-maintenance/a27182434/how-oil-catch-can-works/

Off the top of my head, one issue might be -- what happens if the owner forgets to empty the can and it gets full?
One primary failure point of catch cans is freezing in cold weather. The can is okay to freeze but the hoses can freeze and block the PCV system. If you install a catch can, you should ensure that there is not a trap in the hoses where water/oil from the engine can gather and settle. Basically the lines should go from a high point to a low point. The catch can is the preferred low point, so that any liquid that collects in the hoses will find it’s way into the can.

If you live somewhere cold, or visit somewhere cold, be very critical of the catch can install and hose length.
 

Outback Texan

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I have a hard time believing that a simple little catch can would not be implemented by Ford if there were any merits to it. It would certainly be cheaper than spending millions of dollars on warranty and extended warranty repair bills, assuming of course that there is a significant failure rate to begin with.
 

Mark S.

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Just curious -- why would you rather not install a catch can??
Because now that I've argued so vociferously against them I can't be a hypocrite. 🙃

Seriously, what you said is one reason; I don't believe the benefit is worth the hassle. Also, I try never to make modifications to drivetrain components during the warranty period. I paid a lot of money for that warranty, and I need a good reason to jeopardize it.
 


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I watched the "Engineering Explained" catch can video:


It's well done, and includes some objective testing.

That guy is usually pretty thorough, but he did not mention freezing temps, or what happens if the can is not emptied and fills up.
 

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I have a hard time believing that a simple little catch can would not be implemented by Ford if there were any merits to it. It would certainly be cheaper than spending millions of dollars on warranty and extended warranty repair bills, assuming of course that there is a significant failure rate to begin with.
I'm not so sure? I don't know almost any manufacturer who would "recommend" a catch can, or would include one as standard equipment. That doesn't mean they have no merit. Rather, it means they decided it was going to cause more problems than it was worth from the people who don't keep up with scheduled maintenance well enough to remember to keep checking and emptying a catch can, on top of everything else.

Direct Injection engines have problems with the valves getting crudded up over time and a oil catch can will definitely get some of the recirculated oil vapors extracted to keep the valves cleaner. I used to have a Cadillac CTS coupe that I put a catch can on (another direct injection engine), and it would collect a small cup full of oil by 6,000 miles or so of driving. I know the Mini Coopers have direct injections engines too, and their scheduled maintenance actually calls for a valve cleaning every 40,000 miles or so where the dealer essentially sand-blasts the valves clean with some mixture of abrasive material.

I would think things have to be pretty extreme to say this issue causes a "significantly higher engine failure rate"? But it causes performance loss and probably shortens engine life-spans. Why would someone like Ford care though, if they feel they've engineered things well enough to last through their warranty period?
 

sajohnson

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I'm not so sure? I don't know almost any manufacturer who would "recommend" a catch can, or would include one as standard equipment. That doesn't mean they have no merit. Rather, it means they decided it was going to cause more problems than it was worth from the people who don't keep up with scheduled maintenance well enough to remember to keep checking and emptying a catch can, on top of everything else.

Direct Injection engines have problems with the valves getting crudded up over time and a oil catch can will definitely get some of the recirculated oil vapors extracted to keep the valves cleaner. I used to have a Cadillac CTS coupe that I put a catch can on (another direct injection engine), and it would collect a small cup full of oil by 6,000 miles or so of driving. I know the Mini Coopers have direct injections engines too, and their scheduled maintenance actually calls for a valve cleaning every 40,000 miles or so where the dealer essentially sand-blasts the valves clean with some mixture of abrasive material.

I would think things have to be pretty extreme to say this issue causes a "significantly higher engine failure rate"? But it causes performance loss and probably shortens engine life-spans. Why would someone like Ford care though, if they feel they've engineered things well enough to last through their warranty period?
I think you're on to something with:

"That doesn't mean they have no merit. Rather, it means they decided it was going to cause more problems than it was worth from the people who don't keep up with scheduled maintenance well enough to remember to keep checking and emptying a catch can, on top of everything else."

I wonder if the procedure used on the Mini Coopers could be used on our engines? That's way better than replacing the head, which is apparently Ford's solution.
 

kingtj

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I think you're on to something with:

"That doesn't mean they have no merit. Rather, it means they decided it was going to cause more problems than it was worth from the people who don't keep up with scheduled maintenance well enough to remember to keep checking and emptying a catch can, on top of everything else."

I wonder if the procedure used on the Mini Coopers could be used on our engines? That's way better than replacing the head, which is apparently Ford's solution.
I found a YouTube video where a guy explains the procedure for his Mini Cooper:

 

sajohnson

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I found a YouTube video where a guy explains the procedure for his Mini Cooper:

Good video, thanks!

I don't see why that wouldn't work. I'd certainly give it a try before replacing the cylinder head!
 


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Found this....even though Ford probably doesn't condone it.

CRC Intake cleaning
I've used the CRC stuff on my Golf R. I would say that if you use it on a regular basis (like every 10k miles or so) then it would be pretty good. Just don't expect it to clean that caked on crud after 50k miles.

I'm still not convinced that Ford has not addressed this issue with the oil separator and possibly some other tweaks. Everyone in the VW world knows about this problem on those engines. It just doesn't seem to be to the same level in the Ford sphere. Both have been make DI engines for about the same amount of time.
 
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Found this interesting...



Exactly...
 
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sajohnson

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Found this interesting...



Exactly...
I don't disagree with his premise -- that these engines run better on higher octane fuel -- but one thing he left out was the fact that our engines are turbocharged.

He was talking about compression ratio -- which is obviously a major factor -- but unlike with naturally aspirated engines where the primary anti-knock tool is to retard ignition timing, with turbocharged engines of course the boost can be dialed back also.

Still though, the owners manual (p. 162-163) does recommend premium -- 91 octane -- "...for best overall vehicle and engine performance."

The manual goes on to say that the added performance is most noticeable when it's hot and/or when towing a trailer (both high load and high heat increase the chance of engine knock).

Bottom line -- we run premium (93 octane around here) in our Badlands because we don't drive much, so the extra cost is minimal. But if a person is putting 15,000 to 20,000+ miles on their BS every year, under 'normal' conditions -- no heavy loads or high heat -- then it probably makes sense to go with regular (or maybe a mid-grade).

My sense is that while premium might make a slight difference in normal driving, it isn't huge. It's not like there's a 50-75 hp difference between 87 octane and 91/93.
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