The next big toowhoo from ford that will spur some interesting discussions.

Folkman

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It will be interesting to follow this one. With all the “I don’t have these parts on my car” issues…. Let the flood gates open. Smart move or idiotic move, only time will tell.

if it was me, (thankfully I have my baby), I would probably be OK and appreciative of the move as long as it was in writing. And if it came with some kind of consolation.

https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/13/22975246/ford-ship-sell-incomplete-vehicles-missing-chips
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Funky358

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WTF! I would think they would have to inform the buyer of these missing parts. Mine is scheduled to be here in a few weeks. We shall see.
 
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Folkman

Folkman

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Survive adapt overcome
given chip shortages are kinda out of Fords hands, and about to get possibly worse with the loss of neon from Ukraine, I can understand their move. Appreciate it even if my vehicle was sitting in a lot waiting for a non-primary function chip.

but then again, I’m not waiting. So… I don’t really have a horse in the game (pun not intended).
 


Funky358

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given chip shortages are kinda out of Fords hands, and about to get possibly worse with the loss of neon from Ukraine, I can understand their move. Appreciate it even if my vehicle was sitting in a lot waiting for a non-primary function chip.

but then again, I’m not waiting. So… I don’t really have a horse in the game (pun not intended).
For sure I don’t want mine sitting in a lot waiting for non-primary function chips or parts but they better be upfront about it.
 

MJE

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What I’d really hate is to be in the market for a used car in a few years only to find out that the missing parts were never installed later on. I’m ok with the decontenting if they’ll add back in the parts later.

So far I think Ford, at least with the BS, has done a pretty good job of decontenting without really impacting usage of the vehicle. This is the first I’ve heard of them actually taking ‘features’ out.
 

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My BL is slotted to be built in the first week of May. I’m curious what legal storm Ford would be in, from those with altered or missing parts, if it shows up built like it was intended, i.e. engine cover, folding headrests, digital screen temp dials, etc.
 

MNVKSFN

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My BL is slotted to be built in the first week of May. I’m curious what legal storm Ford would be in, from those with altered or missing parts, if it shows up built like it was intended, i.e. engine cover, folding headrests, digital screen temp dials, etc.
hmmm, color is different and ordered a month apart (1-18-22) same production date (5-9). Should be interesting to see when we get ours.
 

Major Kong

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Ford Bronco Sport The next big toowhoo from ford that will spur some interesting discussions. 1647196917042


Appearances aren't always what they seem
Question:
  • how is the chip deprived vehicle identified?
  • is the dealer notified? and when? post or pre-delivery?
  • consumer alerted to which functions were affected?
  • consumer notification?how?verbal or written?
  • what occurs after one year going on two with no resolvement?
 
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AWSD

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Ford Bronco Sport The next big toowhoo from ford that will spur some interesting discussions. 1647196917042


Appearances aren't always what they seem
Question:
  • how is the chip deprived vehicle identified?
  • is the dealer notified? and when? post or pre-delivery?
  • consumer alerted to which functions were affected?
  • consumer notification?how?verbal or written?
  • what occurs after one year going on two with no resolvement?
Definitely good questions to which no one knows how Ford knows or cares about those with less than advertised units. Let's say the 2023 model is made as intended, with no shortcuts. Do the 2022s just become a one-off odd year that no one will want years down the road at resale? Future Buyer- “Oh sorry, you have a 2022, isn’t that the year missing x,y, and z?”
 

Glamdring70

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This "chips" issue is really starting to lose its luster. We've now been in a "chip shortage" twice as long as the "chips unrequired" phase that caused plants to stop making auto chips. When the chip excuse started getting thrown around it seemed reasonable but at some point chip production should have restarted and at least the back-orders should be getting filled. The US has also thrown tax money at the problem to no avail. If they're just going to keep taking features out then the MSRP needs to drop dramatically.

The worst part of this, to me as a current owner, is 5+ years down the road. What happens when we're sourcing parts and suddenly a model year is so jumbled that getting the right parts with the right feature is a nightmare. Like, I can probably go look for e.g. a set of PT Cruiser ignition wires and the same one set will fit nine years of builds. These Bronco Sports, and Escapes, and Mavericks and etc., need a new HVAC panel, and there might be 27 types out there but only 1 that fits your specific car. And having to spare 27 different panels instead of 1 also means 1/27 of the spare inventory will ever be made. Not looking forward to it.
 

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This "chips" issue is really starting to lose its luster. We've now been in a "chip shortage" twice as long as the "chips unrequired" phase that caused plants to stop making auto chips. When the chip excuse started getting thrown around it seemed reasonable but at some point chip production should have restarted and at least the back-orders should be getting filled. The US has also thrown tax money at the problem to no avail. If they're just going to keep taking features out then the MSRP needs to drop dramatically.

The worst part of this, to me as a current owner, is 5+ years down the road. What happens when we're sourcing parts and suddenly a model year is so jumbled that getting the right parts with the right feature is a nightmare. Like, I can probably go look for e.g. a set of PT Cruiser ignition wires and the same one set will fit nine years of builds. These Bronco Sports, and Escapes, and Mavericks and etc., need a new HVAC panel, and there might be 27 types out there but only 1 that fits your specific car. And having to spare 27 different panels instead of 1 also means 1/27 of the spare inventory will ever be made. Not looking forward to it.
Wait what?

Semiconductor production is very complicated and scheduled far in advance. The auto industry gave up its production slots early in the pandemic; those were quickly consumed by other customers. Semiconductor demand has only increased during the pandemic with things like remote work, stimulus funds, etc. increasing consumer demand amongst other sectors.

Semiconductor production is not a switch you flip or dial you turn to ramp up. It takes years and large sums of funding to build out new production capacity, and that process is well under way, domestically and abroad.

Throw on top of that the start of WW3 that's causing raw materials used in semiconductor production and elsewhere in automotive parts and the supply chain constraints keep piling up against us.

There is no "to no avail", progress is being made, despite the roadblocks that keep getting thrown at the industry.

I have no idea where you get the idea of "27 different panels". The idea being tossed around is that certain modules will be omitted entirely at time of delivery. Modules that enable features that aren't related to the safe operation of the vehicle; the vehicles will still comply with all safety and emissions regulations.

Any module installed after delivery would be effectively a black box where it still had the same inputs and outputs, even if it functioned differently internally. The whole point is that it's a drop-in replacement where a dealer service department gets the part in and simply installs it in place.

It's effectively the same part, whether it's installed on the assembly line or in a dealer service bay. So that has absolutely no impact on replacement parts down the line.
 

Glamdring70

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The reason the auto uses so many "chips" is because each chip does 1 thing. That way one failure doesn't mean a cascade of failures. Because of that, the required parts are not new designs and the chip fab facility doesn't need to be state of the art by any measure. It's akin to the "14 transistor" radios of yore that use 13 as diodes and one as an actual transistor. Very simple function.

All of the designs, etchings and production facilities already exist. Right here in my town, Intel is nearing completion of its D1X facility. This was $3,000,000,000 to build and it isn't going to make auto chips. That's a job for different tooling that is already built. So it's disingenuous to imply that we need years to build production facilities that can produce the required parts. They can't "flip a switch" at those production facilities, but I bet they could retool and produce within a week.

What you've labeled WW3 is a new development. Yeah, noble gas sources might be an issue. That's been an issue for several industries for several years. But that's a new hurdle and hasn't contributed to the issue since the last 15 days or so. We're over a year into the chip-chip line.

I just threw out 27 different panels as a possibility. Depending on the exact Bronco Sport trim, you might already have one of like 4 or 5 different HVAC panels. Single, auto, dual zone, etc. Then add to that some have the temp on dial and some are on dash. You can't just swap one for the other because the operation is deeply tied into the Forscan settings. Similarly to how you can't just swap clusters anymore. Then they talk about elimination or substitution for the next MY, so maybe there's 15 different versions out there chipped and chipless and different feature-equipped. It's not unreasonable to say there could be dozens by the end of the Bronco Sport production if that's how they handle things. That makes sourcing parts difficult.
 

jsus

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The reason the auto uses so many "chips" is because each chip does 1 thing. That way one failure doesn't mean a cascade of failures. Because of that, the required parts are not new designs and the chip fab facility doesn't need to be state of the art by any measure. It's akin to the "14 transistor" radios of yore that use 13 as diodes and one as an actual transistor. Very simple function.

All of the designs, etchings and production facilities already exist. Right here in my town, Intel is nearing completion of its D1X facility. This was $3,000,000,000 to build and it isn't going to make auto chips. That's a job for different tooling that is already built. So it's disingenuous to imply that we need years to build production facilities that can produce the required parts. They can't "flip a switch" at those production facilities, but I bet they could retool and produce within a week.

What you've labeled WW3 is a new development. Yeah, noble gas sources might be an issue. That's been an issue for several industries for several years. But that's a new hurdle and hasn't contributed to the issue since the last 15 days or so. We're over a year into the chip-chip line.

I just threw out 27 different panels as a possibility. Depending on the exact Bronco Sport trim, you might already have one of like 4 or 5 different HVAC panels. Single, auto, dual zone, etc. Then add to that some have the temp on dial and some are on dash. You can't just swap one for the other because the operation is deeply tied into the Forscan settings. Similarly to how you can't just swap clusters anymore. Then they talk about elimination or substitution for the next MY, so maybe there's 15 different versions out there chipped and chipless and different feature-equipped. It's not unreasonable to say there could be dozens by the end of the Bronco Sport production if that's how they handle things. That makes sourcing parts difficult.
No..?? The facilities and equipment do not exist. All facilities and equipment that are capable of producing semiconductors are in use, and they take years to build, which is in process, that's the whole point. What part of that don't you understand? It literally does take years, not weeks, unless you want them to start making chips for cars despite having already sold the capacity to other customers. It's disingenuous to say that "within a week" you can go from having no production capacity to having the facility and equipment all tested and ready for production.

27 is completely different from 3 (manual, single zone auto, dual zone auto). The removal of the displays from the dials is a minor thing that was made across the board at the model year changeover and isn't the end of the world, especially since it's better to look at the screen than down below anyway (as much as I appreciate the redundancy). And those 3 different climate control panels are shared across much of the Ford lineup.

Nobody is entitled to swap in a gauge cluster from a different vehicle, that is something that people have stumbled upon but was never advertised and never supported by Ford, so I really don't know what that has to do with anything.

Where are you pulling any of this from? It's not the automotive or semiconductor industries.
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