Synthetic vs. Conventional Oil

[sajohnson]

At around 2:52 he says the 10k oil experienced 14% less evaporation than the 5k oil.



Just goes to show how hard it is to untrain our brains once we get an idea ingrained in there. This guy is clearly data-oriented, but he just can't bring himself to trust the data.



Back to the Owner's Manual:

I caught that "14%" -- but I believe that was based on comparing the amount of weight (in grams) lost from each, and they started with different weights. Not wildly different, but when someone is being as precise as he is, an error like that kinda stands out.

Again, no big deal, it doesn't affect the outcome, just something I noticed.

Thanks for the correction (10K vs 12.5K miles). IDK where 12,500 came from. I wasn't absolutely sure, that's why I qualified it with 'IIRC'. I am reasonably certain I saw it recently here in a post about the OLM. Maybe it was a different vehicle?

I don't exactly have a photographic memory, and I post in several different (and mostly unrelated) forums. If I'm really not sure about something I'll take the time to research it, but I'm almost never 100% certain about anything that depends on memory. If I checked everything I post that I have even the slightest question about, it would really slow things down.

In this case, my overall point remains exactly the same either way -- quote:

"For other drivers that may be wasteful. After all, the OLM in the BS goes as high as 10,000 miles (IIRC) and that's assuming the Motorcraft synthetic blend oil is being used.

So his statement that the oil cannot be trusted beyond 5-6,000 miles in clearly false in many cases. In fact, while I am NOT recommending this, based on the video, when using full synthetic, the change interval could be extended beyond what the OLM indicates. Again, I'm not suggesting anyone do that, I'm just pointing out that when he says "5-6,000 miles" that would be very wasteful -- esp when using 100% synthetic.

As you said: "Just goes to show how hard it is to untrain our brains once we get an idea ingrained in there. This guy is clearly data-oriented, but he just can't bring himself to trust the data."

That's spot-on. I think most of us have thought that way at least once or twice.

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[sajohnson]

I found the post I was referring to -- it's #61 in this thread:

"Anyone following Ford's "Intelligent Oil Life Monitor" for scheduling changes? Looks like 7,500-12,500 miles depending on how the computer assesses engine usage."

That makes me feel a bit better. Obviously if the manual says 10,000 max. then that's the official number, but at least I know I didn't pull 12,500 out of thin air.

 

[coopny]

For the BS BL, at least in the 2023 model year in the US, the Intelligent Oil Life Monitor supposedly maxes out at 10k miles.

Scheduled Maintenance - General Maintenance Information

Your vehicle comes with the Intelligent Oil-Life Monitor system, a message appears in the instrument cluster display at the proper oil change interval. This interval may be up to one year or 10000 mi (16,000 km), hybrid vehicles could exceed 10000 mi (16,000 km).​

​

When the oil change message appears in the instrument cluster display, it is time for an oil change. Make sure you perform the oil change within two weeks or 500 mi (800 km) of the message appearing. Make sure to reset the Intelligent Oil-Life Monitor after each oil change. See Resetting the Intelligent Oil Life Monitor. ​

​

If your instrument cluster display resets prematurely or becomes inoperative, you should perform the oil change interval at six months or 5000 mi (8,000 km) from your last oil change. Never exceed one year or 10000 mi (16,000 km) between oil change intervals.​

So it will always trigger at 10,000 miles or one year. Depending on operating conditions (high engine speeds, high loads, extended idling, frequent short trips that do not get the engine to temp, towing, etc.) the oil life monitor will adjust and will alert at less than 10k miles.

If you're using the oil life monitor I don't see any reason to change the oil sooner. I've seen a lot of debate over this and how if you don't change your first oil change at 1500-3000 miles that a ton of metal is going to be floating around screwing with the longevity of the vehicle; others saying that building tolerances on modern cars are far better and you can truly take the factory intervals, including not doing a sooner first oil change if the manual doesn't call for it (the BS BL does not call for a sooner first oil change).

When I hit 3K on the odo (have 2.1K now) I'll have Valvoline swap the synth blend from the factory to full synthetic and have them capture an oil sample & have Blackstone labs analyze it for thirty bucks to see which group is right.

Some may decry but you could change the oil yourself for the cost of the oil analysis alone (Actually probably less - 5W-30 Kirkland Signature oil 10qts is on sale for $30 at Costco right now)- #1 with my current living situation an oil change is inconvenient to deal with, particularly with the bash plate, #2 getting it done at Valvoline ensures it's on the CARFAX as performed if I have any warranty issues or as a service record when I sell the vehicle, #3 doing the oil analysis tells me if I'm right to trust Ford or if I should be doing oil changes in excess of what Ford recommends for longevity of the vehicle.

 

[Mark S.]

...have them capture an oil sample & have Blackstone labs analyze it for thirty bucks to see which group is right.

You can send a sample off for analysis if you like, but I think you'd be wasting your money. Oil sample analysis is more of a trend monitoring tool. A single sample doesn't really tell you anything of use. You will get a single, snapshot data point that applies to your vehicle, and your vehicle alone.

You can read my post about my 1st oil change here. Instead of sending off a test sample I cut open the filter to see what kind of debris break in generated. I would be far more interested in what you find in your filter on the 1st oil change than what oil analysis can tell you.

 

[sajohnson]

For the BS BL, at least in the 2023 model year in the US, the Intelligent Oil Life Monitor supposedly maxes out at 10k miles.

Scheduled Maintenance - General Maintenance Information

Your vehicle comes with the Intelligent Oil-Life Monitor system, a message appears in the instrument cluster display at the proper oil change interval. This interval may be up to one year or 10000 mi (16,000 km), hybrid vehicles could exceed 10000 mi (16,000 km).​

​

When the oil change message appears in the instrument cluster display, it is time for an oil change. Make sure you perform the oil change within two weeks or 500 mi (800 km) of the message appearing. Make sure to reset the Intelligent Oil-Life Monitor after each oil change. See Resetting the Intelligent Oil Life Monitor. ​

​

If your instrument cluster display resets prematurely or becomes inoperative, you should perform the oil change interval at six months or 5000 mi (8,000 km) from your last oil change. Never exceed one year or 10000 mi (16,000 km) between oil change intervals.​

So it will always trigger at 10,000 miles or one year. Depending on operating conditions (high engine speeds, high loads, extended idling, frequent short trips that do not get the engine to temp, towing, etc.) the oil life monitor will adjust and will alert at less than 10k miles.

If you're using the oil life monitor I don't see any reason to change the oil sooner. I've seen a lot of debate over this and how if you don't change your first oil change at 1500-3000 miles that a ton of metal is going to be floating around screwing with the longevity of the vehicle; others saying that building tolerances on modern cars are far better and you can truly take the factory intervals, including not doing a sooner first oil change if the manual doesn't call for it (the BS BL does not call for a sooner first oil change).

When I hit 3K on the odo (have 2.1K now) I'll have Valvoline swap the synth blend from the factory to full synthetic and have them capture an oil sample & have Blackstone labs analyze it for thirty bucks to see which group is right.

Some may decry but you could change the oil yourself for the cost of the oil analysis alone (Actually probably less - 5W-30 Kirkland Signature oil 10qts is on sale for $30 at Costco right now)- #1 with my current living situation an oil change is inconvenient to deal with, particularly with the bash plate, #2 getting it done at Valvoline ensures it's on the CARFAX as performed if I have any warranty issues or as a service record when I sell the vehicle, #3 doing the oil analysis tells me if I'm right to trust Ford or if I should be doing oil changes in excess of what Ford recommends for longevity of the vehicle.

Good info, thanks!

Quote:

"If your instrument cluster display resets prematurely or becomes inoperative, you should perform the oil change interval at six months or 5000 mi (8,000 km) from your last oil change. Never exceed one year or 10000 mi (16,000 km) between oil change intervals."

Damn, I hope the oil life monitor (OLM) does not fail, because that would mean twice as many oil changes (we're at once a year).

It sounds like Ford wants all owners to go with a "severe service" schedule if the OLM fails -- regardless of operating conditions. That's the safest policy, but for vehicles that do not have an OLM, mfrs typically have at least 2 oil change intervals -- "normal" and "severe" (or similar) -- and 'normal' is usually about 7,500 miles. Even my 30 year old Nissan NX2000 has a 7,500 mile 'normal' interval (5,000 mile for severe duty). 'Normal' for the BS is apparently 10,000 miles.

Quote:

"So it will always trigger at 10,000 miles or one year."

You're right that it SHOULD -- but it doesn't, not in my experience anyway. I posted last month about the first oil change I did. We put very few miles on the BS BL so I planned to go by time (1 year). Out of curiosity I was keeping an eye on the display and even at ~2 days before the 1 year mark it said there was about 12% oil life remaining.

The consensus on that thread was that the OLM does not take time into account -- only miles and various factors that affect oil life (ambient temp; engine temp; load; duration of operation, etc.).

If the OLM incorporated time it should have indicated ~0-1% oil life remaining.

 

[Mark S.]

It sounds like Ford wants all owners to go with a "severe service" schedule if the OLM fails -- regardless of operating conditions.

This is why we used to change the oil every 3000 miles. Without the IOLM the safest bet was to assume the worst. Changing every 3000 miles covered pretty much all use patterns. We don't need to follow that guidance anymore because we have a data-based tool.

 

[point78]

Quote:

"So it will always trigger at 10,000 miles or one year."

I was looking at my Fordpass app “oil life” yesterday.

(I picked up my BroncoSport this past February, it was on the auto train in January . )

I don’t put many miles on it as I have two other vehicles. (I do live way up in the Colorado mountains, so the engine does have to work pretty hard at times climbing mountain passes, etc.)

Anyways, it was estimating a March 2024 service date at 5700 miles.

 

[sajohnson]

This is why we used to change the oil every 3000 miles. Without the IOLM the safest bet was to assume the worst. Changing every 3000 miles covered pretty much all use patterns. We don't need to follow that guidance anymore because we have a data-based tool.

Until we don't.

I'm not aware of a rash of OLM failures, but Ford brought the possibility up.

My question is, in the unlikely event that the OLM fails, why not revert to the decades old, tried and true method of determining whether the use is "normal" or "severe" (lots of idling; short trips; cold temps; taxi use; towing; emergency vehicles, etc.) and then change the oil & filter accordingly?

Or even better (less subjectivity) use the previous OLM recommendations (assuming similar ongoing use). For example, after one year and ~2,600 miles, our OLM said we had 12% oil life remaining. So the one year interval is fine. If our OLM failed, I'd continue changing the oil (using 100% synthetic API-SP) every year. There's no way I'd suddenly start changing it every 6 months!

If we had the BS BL a few years ago, it might have seen 20,000 miles per year -- almost all easy highway and rural road miles. I imagine the OLM would indicate 10,000 mile intervals (or close to it). If our use did not change, I would stick with 10,000 mile intervals (or whatever the OLM had indicated previously).

A blanket "every 6 months or 5,000 miles" seems wasteful (in many cases anyway).

Decades ago, I used to change the oil in our cars every 3,000 miles -- because that was the mfr recommendation. Of course there were/are a tiny percentage of extreme scenarios where the oil should be changed even more frequently. Then mfrs went to 5,000, then 7,500, then 10,000. For our cars that called for 5K to 7.5K mile intervals (using dino oil) I used the 7,500 mile interval (because our driving was/is almost all highway) and used 100% synthetic as cheap insurance.

They all blew up before hitting 75,000 miles, but I'm sure it was just mfr defects.

No, seriously, it's anecdotal of course, but all have 200-250K miles on them. Their engines still run great and burn very little oil. They are sidelined due to other issues (steering racks, etc.).

At the end of the day though, there are no serious downsides to changing oil early. Just wasted time; unnecessary expense; and more frequent recycling (for DIY owners). All are minimal.

It's not a big deal, I'm just surprised that Ford would not revert back to the old school way of determining oil change intervals according to use.

 

[sajohnson]

Quote:

"So it will always trigger at 10,000 miles or one year."

I was looking at my Fordpass app “oil life” yesterday.

(I picked up my BroncoSport this past February, it was on the auto train in January . )

I don’t put many miles on it as I have two other vehicles. (I do live way up in the Colorado mountains, so the engine does have to work pretty hard at times climbing mountain passes, etc.)

Anyways, it was estimating a March 2024 service date at 5700 miles.

Whatever you do, do not disregard the OLM!

It knows all and sees all.

 

[GoHack]

Well, I went and had my 5K mile oil change done today on my Badlands.

I went with the 5W-30 Amsoil Signature Series Full Synthetic Oil, w/a Napa Platinum oil filer.

Local temperature today was 105F, and it's supposed to be even hotter this weekend.
These BS engines already run fairly hot, especially w/the turbos, which run at very high RPMs, so using a good quality oil/filter is especially important to me.

 

[sajohnson]

Well, I went and had my 5K mile oil change done today on my Badlands.

I went with the 5W-30 Amsoil Signature Series Full Synthetic Oil, w/a Napa Platinum oil filer.

Local temperature today was 105F, and it's supposed to be even hotter this weekend.
These BS engines already run fairly hot, especially w/the turbos, which run at very high RPMs, so using a good quality oil/filter is especially important to me.

I've always run used fryer oil, since 1952, and it's always been fine.

Git yourself some fryer oil and one uh them toilet paper oil filters and you're good to go.

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