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Flash3x

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I think this is a great video that shows how the Bronco Sport is capable of sending meaningful power to any wheel as the situation warrants. There is another video of this same test on YouTube that also has commentary describing how the AWD system is reacting, but I can’t find that one at the moment.
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sajohnson

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I think this is a great video that shows how the Bronco Sport is capable of sending meaningful power to any wheel as the situation warrants. There is another video of this same test on YouTube that also has commentary describing how the AWD system is reacting, but I can’t find that one at the moment.
Great video, thanks for posting it.

It would be interesting to see how other vehicles handle this test.

"Real world" tests are important also, but I like these 'roller' tests because they are repeatable and identical from one vehicle to the next. With off-road testing of 2 or more vehicles, the first vehicle may alter the course, or the driver(s) might take a different line, etc.

It's good to have both.
 

Osco

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To the WRX Subaru guy with the watery diff fluids,
Back in the day I used to trace RC cars and trucks, on road and off, RWD, FWD, and AWD.
We had differentials front and/or rear depending on the obvious.
We always tore them down and choose our own weight of grease.
The thicker stuff for off road tracks was best.
on road we might run 30wt silicone out back and say 40wt in the front diff.
Off road I’d sometimes put 90 rear end lube from Napa in the front diff and 60 wt silicon out back…..
Why can’t you guys tune your differentials with say 120 wt or more ???
Pack em by hand with bearing grease ??
Not kidding, why not, what would that fluid diff do ?
In the wild, and on road ??
 

MaxVelocity

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Great video, thanks for posting it.

It would be interesting to see how other vehicles handle this test.

"Real world" tests are important also, but I like these 'roller' tests because they are repeatable and identical from one vehicle to the next. With off-road testing of 2 or more vehicles, the first vehicle may alter the course, or the driver(s) might take a different line, etc.

It's good to have both.
TFL off road also did this test, and has videos for the same tests for other vehicles. This may be the other one that @Flash3x was referring to:

 


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Great video, thanks for posting it.

It would be interesting to see how other vehicles handle this test.

"Real world" tests are important also, but I like these 'roller' tests because they are repeatable and identical from one vehicle to the next. With off-road testing of 2 or more vehicles, the first vehicle may alter the course, or the driver(s) might take a different line, etc.

It's good to have both.
Most vehicles do poorly on these, this is a very good result.

FYI the 1.5 may not do quite as well due to the lack of torque, especially on an incline.
 

sajohnson

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To the WRX Subaru guy with the watery diff fluids,
Back in the day I used to trace RC cars and trucks, on road and off, RWD, FWD, and AWD.
We had differentials front and/or rear depending on the obvious.
We always tore them down and choose our own weight of grease.
The thicker stuff for off road tracks was best.
on road we might run 30wt silicone out back and say 40wt in the front diff.
Off road I’d sometimes put 90 rear end lube from Napa in the front diff and 60 wt silicon out back…..
Why can’t you guys tune your differentials with say 120 wt or more ???
Pack em by hand with bearing grease ??
Not kidding, why not, what would that fluid diff do ?
In the wild, and on road ??
Hi Osco,

First off, you may realize this, but just to be clear, I'm referring to the viscous coupling units (VCUs) in the WRX -- not the differentials themselves.

This should probably be a separate thread (maybe even on another forum, like NASIOC) but briefly, I remember guys talking about replacing both center and rear VCUs with 'stronger' units, for more torque transfer. I believe the 5MT WRX STi came from the factory with stronger VCUs.

That begs the question -- why didn't SOA just use the stronger VCUs in both cars? I know mfrs like to have differences between models that they can point to, but the STi had/has a more powerful engine; better transmission; bigger brakes; better suspension, etc. All-wheel drive is Subaru's claim to fame, and when the WRX came out, there was no STi -- it came later. The WRX was a 'flagship' car for Subaru, yet they chose to use pathetically weak VCUs in it.

The VCUs SOA used in the 5MT WRX (at least the early models like mine) are practically worthless. It can get stuck with one tire on ice. I can put the car on the lift, start it, put it in gear and stop either rear tire from spinning by pressing on it with my (gloved) hands. With the rear end in the air on a floor jack, it will not even drive over a 2x4 (a 1.5" obstruction) with the front tires! It tries, and then rolls backwards. So sad.

Most importantly though, why use VCUs to begin with? They will always be too strong or too weak for many conditions. Too strong, and it can be close to running with locked diffs, which is obviously bad, too weak (like mine) and it's like the 5AT RAV4 I mentioned above that was stuck in the grass at the Toyota dealer because one (1) tire was spinning.

Bringing this back around to the BS -- I'm *really* glad Ford chose to use a system with adjustable clutches. We probably would not have ordered the Badlands (or any BS) if it used VCUs.
 

Mark S.

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It would be interesting to see how other vehicles handle this test.
I linked to this in my last post; this later model Subaru has no problem passing this test as well.




The video below highlights some of the real-world differences between the Bronco Sport's Intelligent 4WD system and Subaru's Symmetrical All-Wheel Drive.

 

sajohnson

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I linked to this in my last post; this later model Subaru has no problem passing this test as well.




The video below highlights some of the real-world differences between the Bronco Sport's Intelligent 4WD system and Subaru's Symmetrical All-Wheel Drive.

Nice!

My brother has a Subaru Ascent with X-mode (IDK about 'X-mode 2' though) so he'll be happy to see the first video.

I'd actually seen the second video but watched it again. Considering the price difference, the Subie did surprisingly well against the FE (Badlands). If asked, I'd recommend that most people buy the Subaru and invest the ~$11,000 difference.

Most drivers do not need more capability than that Subaru has. My wife and I live on what passes for a mountain in this part of Maryland. We sometimes tow a utility trailer or log splitter around our place, our road has a 25% grade with a 90 degree right at the bottom and a 90 degree left halfway up -- and even *we* probably could get by with Subaru's X-mode system most of the time.

The BS Badlands AWD system is clearly better, but for $11,000 more it should be! There may be times when the Badlands' system is needed and we're glad we have it, but it won't be very often.

To be perfectly honest -- the Badlands is really for my wife. She likes the boxy look and is used to the decent/capable AWD in her 5MT RAV4. There are very few "boxy" SUVs, and the others are mostly super-expensive. Any BS would have been fine, but getting the Badlands with very few options (tow package and crossbars for the roof) made the most sense for our situation.
 

Mark S.

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I'd actually seen the second video but watched it again. Considering the price difference, the Subie did surprisingly well against the FE (Badlands). If asked, I'd recommend that most people buy the Subaru and invest the ~$11,000 difference.
That might be true if all you were considering was capability. There's no comparison if you consider cool factor. You wife knows what's up!
 


sajohnson

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That might be true if all you were considering was capability. There's no comparison if you consider cool factor. You wife knows what's up!
You've got that right!

From a practical point of view a RAV4 Prime plug-in hybrid might be a better choice, but even if she was not into the boxy look, I really don't care for the appearance of most late-model vehicles (including the RAV4).

I do like the look of the Bronco and the BS, but I've always been a 'function over form guy' -- so I'm more impressed with the 2.0L turbo; the 8AT with manual shifting; the all-wheel drive system with various GOAT modes; the suspension; skid plates, etc.
 

MaxVelocity

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The BS Badlands AWD system is clearly better, but for $11,000 more it should be! There may be times when the Badlands' system is needed and we're glad we have it, but it won't be very often.
Are you comparing apples to apples though? A Badlands without all the extra options is under $34,000. I remember thinking this when I first saw that video.

I truly don't know how that compares to the Subaru with whatever options it has.
 

sajohnson

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Are you comparing apples to apples though? A Badlands without all the extra options is under $34,000. I remember thinking this when I first saw that video.

I truly don't know how that compares to the Subaru with whatever options it has.
,

I agree, it's absolutely NOT apples:apples. The BL is better in many ways. All I was saying was, going by the prices in the video, for $11,000 less ($12,000 less not counting the tires he put on) most people would be better off saving that pile o' cash and getting the Subaru.

By "most people" I mean average income and/or not in love with the Badlands. Most people are not car enthusiasts. They look at cars like they are just another appliance. A transport pod. They may be more concerned with the color than anything else. For someone like that, esp if they are on a pretty tight budget, I'd suggest they get the Subaru (or similar). Like the BS, it's safe and reliable. It has a decent AWD system and costs a lot less.

If a person/couple is buying the BL primarily for the AWD system, that's a lot of extra money for a drive system that is overkill for most people. It's like buying an F-350 diesel; crew-cab; 4WD; dually pickup to tow a little utility trailer. That's an exaggeration, but that's the idea.

Good point about the actual price of the BL. Our BL with tow and crossbars ($880 total) came to almost $36,500 (Incl. ~$1,500 destination charge) -- so, just over $34,000 for the vehicle itself. I imagine the guy who made the video was quoting the 'bottom line' MSRP/sticker price including freight, but IDK.

Of course, he was talking about the First Edition (FE) which was significantly more expensive than the BL -- so that might explain the $40,000 he quoted,

Let's say the 2 vehicles are compared stock, with OE tires. He said the Subaru was $28,000 -- I have no idea, I'm taking his word for it. The BL costs ~$34,000 stripped, plus $1,500 destination, or $35,500. That's a difference of $7,500. That's assuming his $28,000 includes Subaru's destination charge. If not, the difference is less, about $6-6.5K.

That's still a lot of money. The BL is clearly more capable and my wife likes the way it looks so that made the choice easy. However, if (say) a young couple without mountains of gold coins were to ask me which I'd recommend -- I'd have to say the Subaru, unless they truly needed the capability of the BL.

$7,500 @ 10% interest (historical market avg) = over $210,000 after 35 years. Unless a person is lucky enough to be eligible for a pension (or has a fat trust fund) it's important to save some $.

Everybody's situation is different. Both vehicles are decent. The BL is better in some ways, but not everyone needs that additional capability. Needless to say, if money is no object, then a person can buy whatever they want -- but if money is a concern, buying something other than the BL might be the way to go.
 

MaxVelocity

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I just did a quick build and price on Subaru's site for a Crosstrek Sport and came up with $28,197 including D&D, so I think their numbers are accurate. As mentioned, Badlands comes in at $35,430 with D&D, so in reality it is a $7K difference, not $11K.

Aside from the differences in AWD systems, one glaring difference is the Subie is missing about 70 horsepower and 100 ft. lbs of torque. It may be more appropriate to compare to a different model Bronco Sport, in which case the price gap narrows even further.
 

sajohnson

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I just did a quick build and price on Subaru's site for a Crosstrek Sport and came up with $28,197 including D&D, so I think their numbers are accurate. As mentioned, Badlands comes in at $35,430 with D&D, so in reality it is a $7K difference, not $11K.

Aside from the differences in AWD systems, one glaring difference is the Subie is missing about 70 horsepower and 100 ft. lbs of torque. It may be more appropriate to compare to a different model Bronco Sport, in which case the price gap narrows even further.
Right. It was not a fair comparison. I'm not sure why they chose the Crosstrek and the Badlands. That's sorta like comparing a Miata/MX5 to a Corvette ZRI. It may have simply been that the Crosstrek was available (it is his personal car) and he was curious as to how it would compare to the Badlands -- knowing that the BL is superior in many ways.

I don't think anyone is saying the 2 vehicles are comparable. "You get what you pay for" may not always apply, but it does in this case.

All I'm saying is that not everyone can afford a BS Badlands, and if we're honest, most people do not really need the serious off-road capability of the BL (most, not all).

There are other vehicles out there -- like the Crosstrek Sport -- that while they are not as nice in some ways, are still decent vehicles. For a person/couple on a tight budget, the Crosstrek (or similar) may be a better choice -- not a better vehicle, but a more reasonable purchase (for them, in their situation).

$7,000 @ 10% interest over 35 years = ~$197,000

The same can be said all up and down the income/wealth ladder. A person buying a Badlands might really prefer a regular Bronco; or Range Rover, etc, but realize that they really cannot or should not spend that much.

A more even comparison test would be a Crosstrek vs a stripped base BS. The base BS with no options is $28,910 (incl. destination), so only ~$700 more than the Crosstrek.
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