Good Advice on Factory Orders from KBB / Order price locked in?

[sajohnson]

I just read this article and realized I should have read it before ordering our Badlands 2 days ago:
https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/ordering-car-from-factory/

From the article:

"Sign the paperwork and get copies. When satisfied with the price, sign the buyer’s order, and get the sales manager to do the same thing. If you leave without a signed buyer’s order, your agreed-upon price isn’t locked in. Get a signed copy for yourself and leave a second signed copy with the dealership."

We have the buyer's order, but it is not signed.

D'oh!

Even if it were signed, it says, "This is not an invoice" which I assume is the dealer's way of saying, "This price is not locked in".

In fact, the salesman said that there might be adjustments to the MSRP by Ford between now and whenever our BL gets delivered. He said that if there is an increase, it will be small -- but now I'm starting to wonder about that.

I suppose that if the dealer wants to, they can point to the "This is not an invoice" statement and tell us they want $5,000 over MSRP when the BL is delivered.

Is it typical for the buyer's order to be an invoice, or at least have the price locked down?

I'd be OK with signing something indicating that I will pay any increase in MSRP -- or, if the increase is an insane amount, cancel the deal and get our (refundable) deposit back. Either that or the dealer could split any additional cost with us. That would be better -- what I want to avoid is the dealer getting greedy and trying to gouge us.

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[MJE]

I didn’t push the issue too much, and may find I lose my ordered vehicle in the end if my dealer changes their minds. But they’ve been good, so I have no reason to suspect anything suspicious.

Firstly they started quoting based on MSRP and discounting from there by a bit. Which is apparently really good in today’s marketplace. But I pushed them to use my X-plan to save some more, which was fine. I’ll come out ahead when they assured me they would accept it.

But. When submitting the order, they don’t yet have the invoice from Ford, so I don’t exactly know how much I’ll be paying yet. I mean they estimated it for me, but there’s nothing binding.

 

[sajohnson]

I didn’t push the issue too much, and may find I lose my ordered vehicle in the end if my dealer changes their minds. But they’ve been good, so I have no reason to suspect anything suspicious.

Firstly they started quoting based on MSRP and discounting from there by a bit. Which is apparently really good in today’s marketplace. But I pushed them to use my X-plan to save some more, which was fine. I’ll come out ahead when they assured me they would accept it.

But. When submitting the order, they don’t yet have the invoice from Ford, so I don’t exactly know how much I’ll be paying yet. I mean they estimated it for me, but there’s nothing binding.

Sounds like you got a good deal. My wife and I paid MSRP.

I've never heard of an 'x-plan' -- what is that?

On the price, it seems to me that the online "Built Your Own" page should have correct pricing, and if for some reason it hasn't been updated, the dealer should have the right amounts.

It's a free market and auto mfrs can do whatever they want, but I can't think of any other product that is sold with the final price being a mystery -- or at least 'subject to change'. Nothing else is sold that way. The price is displayed up front, and if someone decides to buy that's what they pay -- even if delivery takes weeks or months.

If/when there are price increases they should apply to future (not past) sales. After all, it's not the buyer's fault that vehicles are taking so long to be built and delivered.

Nothing we can do about it, but it is aggravating.

 

[SportWest]

I'm reasonably confident that my retail order will cost 'as expected' because the dealer did everything KBB suggests without me having to mention it. The buyer's order form -- signed by me, the salesman, and manager -- also lists the applicable rebates and dollar amounts. No "hopefully they honor this screenshot I took showing incentives" business.

I was prepared to force them to do all of this or walk based on reports of unscrupulous dealers tacking on b.s. 'market adjustments' because only a 'preview order' was signed by a sleazy salesman and the customer.

Paying a higher MSRP because Ford -- not the dealer -- raised prices half way through the production run is still a crock, but I put that in a different category than dealers playing games with their own, usually higher, 'adjustments.' If Ford is serious about retail orders being the future, they need to fix all of this so buyers aren't left wondering what the final price will be upon delivery.

 

[gibsonc7r]

I wish I knew about this before too, but my dealer advertises no mark ups on orders, so I feel somewhat okay.

 

[sajohnson]

I'm reasonably confident that my retail order will cost 'as expected' because the dealer did everything KBB suggests without me having to mention it. The buyer's order form -- signed by me, the salesman, and manager -- also lists the applicable rebates and dollar amounts. No "hopefully they honor this screenshot I took showing incentives" business.

I was prepared to force them to do all of this or walk based on reports of unscrupulous dealers tacking on b.s. 'market adjustments' because only a 'preview order' was signed by a sleazy salesman and the customer.

Paying a higher MSRP because Ford -- not the dealer -- raised prices half way through the production run is still a crock, but I put that in a different category than dealers playing games with their own, usually higher, 'adjustments.' If Ford is serious about retail orders being the future, they need to fix all of this so buyers aren't left wondering what the final price will be upon delivery.

Agreed! Unfortunately, corporations, dealers (and, to be fair, people in general) get blinded by greed and become very short-sighted.

I've bought several new cars in my life, but I've never ordered one. So all of these variables did not occur to me.

After reading a bunch of reviews/ratings at: BBB; Dealer Rater; Google; and Yelp (before ordering) I feel pretty confident that Frederick Motor Company (FMC) will not try to pull any "market adjustment" crap -- but I may read a few more reviews just to ease my mind a bit more.

If I had a leg to stand on I would demand that the buyer's order form be signed by the salesman and manager, but it sounds as though that's up to the dealership whether they want to do that or not.

If I can get a few more stories like yours that might be enough. At least I'd have something to point to.

Otherwise, my only recourse is to get our deposit back and go to the other local dealer -- and they have a *worse* reputation (we are buying locally to hopefully reduce warranty work hassles).

 

[MJE]

Sounds like you got a good deal. My wife and I paid MSRP.

I've never heard of an 'x-plan' -- what is that?

On the price, it seems to me that the online "Built Your Own" page should have correct pricing, and if for some reason it hasn't been updated, the dealer should have the right amounts.

It's a free market and auto mfrs can do whatever they want, but I can't think of any other product that is sold with the final price being a mystery -- or at least 'subject to change'. Nothing else is sold that way. The price is displayed up front, and if someone decides to buy that's what they pay -- even if delivery takes weeks or months.

If/when there are price increases they should apply to future (not past) sales. After all, it's not the buyer's fault that vehicles are taking so long to be built and delivered.

Nothing we can do about it, but it is aggravating.

In this day & age it seems MSRP is a great price too!

https://www.fordpartner.com/partnerweb/login.do
X-Plan. I work for a large company which purchases Ford vehicles for their fleet. Often these companies will have x-plan pricing available for their employees or full time contract staff. Others seem to get it through a mustang club & owning ford stock has also been mentioned here. Fixed price, no negotiation, but it still saved me about $2K over the dealer’s previous best offer if I’ve figured it right. They’ll probably claw that back on my trade though I’m sure.

 

[sajohnson]

In this day & age it seems MSRP is a great price too!

https://www.fordpartner.com/partnerweb/login.do
X-Plan. I work for a large company which purchases Ford vehicles for their fleet. Often these companies will have x-plan pricing available for their employees or full time contract staff. Others seem to get it through a mustang club & owning ford stock has also been mentioned here. Fixed price, no negotiation, but it still saved me about $2K over the dealer’s previous best offer if I’ve figured it right. They’ll probably claw that back on my trade though I’m sure.

Thanks for the explanation!

I thought MSRP as OK (considering) up until I saw this thread earlier:
https://www.broncosportforum.com/forum/threads/6-under-invoice-on-2022-bronco-sport.4014/

6% under *invoice*!

Of course delivery is the customer's responsibility, and there is a $1,000 NON-refundable deposit.

Then there is the very real possibility that another Ford dealer may not want to do warranty work on a car they did not sell. However, that might be a reasonable trade-off for thousands of dollars in savings.

 

[Rgill]

I just read this article and realized I should have read it before ordering our Badlands 2 days ago:
https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/ordering-car-from-factory/

From the article:

"Sign the paperwork and get copies. When satisfied with the price, sign the buyer’s order, and get the sales manager to do the same thing. If you leave without a signed buyer’s order, your agreed-upon price isn’t locked in. Get a signed copy for yourself and leave a second signed copy with the dealership."

We have the buyer's order, but it is not signed.

D'oh!

Even if it were signed, it says, "This is not an invoice" which I assume is the dealer's way of saying, "This price is not locked in".

In fact, the salesman said that there might be adjustments to the MSRP by Ford between now and whenever our BL gets delivered. He said that if there is an increase, it will be small -- but now I'm starting to wonder about that.

I suppose that if the dealer wants to, they can point to the "This is not an invoice" statement and tell us they want $5,000 over MSRP when the BL is delivered.

Is it typical for the buyer's order to be an invoice, or at least have the price locked down?

I'd be OK with signing something indicating that I will pay any increase in MSRP -- or, if the increase is an insane amount, cancel the deal and get our (refundable) deposit back. Either that or the dealer could split any additional cost with us. That would be better -- what I want to avoid is the dealer getting greedy and trying to gouge us.

I posted the following back in October…probably good to post now and then

“**VERY IMPORTANT: Then REQUIRE that they give you a “Retail Buyers Order & Invoice” completely filled out and signed by the manager. This is your agreement with them on the options and costs. This can be binding. It can prevent a later market add on to the price, etc. Tell them that everything should be on that Order and Invocie, including any dealer add ons they plan on doing (those weird things like etching or undercoating, etc) so that you can discuss them beforehand and avoid a surprise price increase.”

 

[sajohnson]

I posted the following back in October…probably good to post now and then

“**VERY IMPORTANT: Then REQUIRE that they give you a “Retail Buyers Order & Invoice” completely filled out and signed by the manager. This is your agreement with them on the options and costs. This can be binding. It can prevent a later market add on to the price, etc. Tell them that everything should be on that Order and Invocie, including any dealer add ons they plan on doing (those weird things like etching or undercoating, etc) so that you can discuss them beforehand and avoid a surprise price increase.”

Thank you Rgill, that's good advice.

I'll ask nicely first. If they give me a hard time I'll point to the 6% under invoice deal from Granger (posted here). I'm half tempted to go for that anyway -- that's thousands less than the deal we have. Our deposit is fully refundable, and we travel to Iowa regularly anyway. I read that the Badlands is towable 4-down, so we could even tow it back to MD with our RV.

I notice you wrote: "This can be binding. It can prevent a later market add on to the price, etc." Did you mean to indicate that it might not be binding? Either way, it's a lot better than nothing.

 

[MJE]

Thanks for the explanation!

I thought MSRP as OK (considering) up until I saw this thread earlier:
https://www.broncosportforum.com/forum/threads/6-under-invoice-on-2022-bronco-sport.4014/

6% under *invoice*!

Of course delivery is the customer's responsibility, and there is a $1,000 NON-refundable deposit.

Then there is the very real possibility that another Ford dealer may not want to do warranty work on a car they did not sell. However, that might be a reasonable trade-off for thousands of dollars in savings.

Welcome. I admit I share your concern too about getting service after the fact for the vehicle. Honestly my initial pick of dealer was based on the fact that I can walk to them quicker than I can drive (literally, to drive there I have to go around my hood to exit housing & into the commercial street, instead of hopping through the back alleys) so service is easy & convenient. They’ve been good so I’m happy.

 

[sajohnson]

Welcome. I admit I share your concern too about getting service after the fact for the vehicle. Honestly my initial pick of dealer was based on the fact that I can walk to them quicker than I can drive (literally, to drive there I have to go around my hood to exit housing & into the commercial street, instead of hopping through the back alleys) so service is easy & convenient. They’ve been good so I’m happy.

That's great MJE, I'm glad to hear it! I have to wonder how they would treat you if you did not buy from them.

Of course not all dealers are reluctant to do warranty work on vehicles they did not sell -- but enough of them have a serious attitude that there is no end to the nightmare stories from people who took their car or truck to another dealer.

That said, I've heard of dealers who actively look for warranty work. A former coworker bought a used BMW, private sale, and then took it to a dealer (one he'd never been to) to get warranty repairs done before the warranty expired. Not only did they fix everything he pointed out, they found additional problems and took care of them -- then they washed and detailed his car! Oh -- and they gave him a loaner to drive!

My experiences have been the polar opposite of that.

This is just a hunch, but it seems that dealers in rural areas are often more cooperative when it comes to warranty repairs.

This is one of those situations where everyone has to decide what is best for them. 6% under invoice is an *excellent* deal, so good that even if your local Ford dealer might jerk you around on warranty work, it may still be worth it.

 

[PonyDriver43]

Thank you Rgill, that's good advice.

I'll ask nicely first. If they give me a hard time I'll point to the 6% under invoice deal from Granger (posted here). I'm half tempted to go for that anyway -- that's thousands less than the deal we have. Our deposit is fully refundable, and we travel to Iowa regularly anyway. I read that the Badlands is towable 4-down, so we could even tow it back to MD with our RV.

Per pg 250 in 2022 owners manual, speaks to towing 4-down. Says don’t. Does not mention BL that I saw. i may be incorrect, if OK with BL disregard.

 

[sajohnson]

Thanks PonyDriver. I can't remember where I read that, but as I recall it was a solid source. Still, I should double-check.

We have never towed anything with the RV, so I didn't look into it any further at the time. It just got me thinking that If we were going to tow a vehicle, the Badlands would be an excellent choice -- especially out west.

<Later> You are *correct*! I just checked again and there is confusion is between the Bronco Sport and the Bronco. Even some sites that should know better are answering questions incorrectly.

Near as I can tell, the BRONCO can be flat toed, the Bronco SPORT cannot.

Bummer. I had visions of hitting some trails out west. They say a dolly will work though. One drawback with an RV, even a 25' class C like our View, is that you are limited as to where you can go. The View does well for light off-roading, but...

 

[Rgill]

Thank you Rgill, that's good advice.

I'll ask nicely first. If they give me a hard time I'll point to the 6% under invoice deal from Granger (posted here). I'm half tempted to go for that anyway -- that's thousands less than the deal we have. Our deposit is fully refundable, and we travel to Iowa regularly anyway. I read that the Badlands is towable 4-down, so we could even tow it back to MD with our RV.

I notice you wrote: "This can be binding. It can prevent a later market add on to the price, etc." Did you mean to indicate that it might not be binding? Either way, it's a lot better than nothing.

It should be binding if signed etc. That is legalize meaning anyone can try to get out of a contract The other popular lawyer response is…it depends.

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