FlatOut Suspension ordered & Installed

[Mark S.]

But where does that .5” come from?

This might give some clues to someone with knowledge of the off-road suspension industry:

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2021/08/20/high-performance-off-road-stability-suspension.html

Looks like longer springs and shocks with hydraulic rebound stops is the major difference.

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[Flatout Suspension]

This might give some clues to someone with knowledge of the off-road suspension industry:

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2021/08/20/high-performance-off-road-stability-suspension.html

Looks like longer springs and shocks with hydraulic rebound stops is the major difference.

I actually knew about the bumpstops, but the height seems to come from springs. I know in the Subaru Outback, it gets its height from the perch being higher, much like preloading a coilover.

Im still not sure if it has .5” added to the shafts or not; which we could very easily do for the Badlands to give it a true 2” over stock height.

 

[Flatout Suspension]

Remember, I volunteered my Badlands but it won't be here till July. Also I think your numbers are a little off. BL, with optional 235/65/17 tires has 8.8" of clearance. Standard tire on BL is a 225/65/17, so just .25" less, with the difference in tires but the BL has either stiffer or longer springs and hydraulic bump stops and I think different (softer) sway bars.

I got the figures from a Ford document somewhere. Maybe early figures.

A dealer 10 miles away has a Badlands inbound (I didn’t feel like waiting, I’m too impulsive haha). Once it arrives, I’m gonna climb around underneath.

No matter what though, if 2” lift is your goal, we’re going to get you there.

 

[Bluebaru]

I took delivery of my clovers today! They were well packaged and the boxes were undamaged by UPS. Two minor glitches, that I guess we’ll get straight shortly and they are, The coil overs Were delivered with the camber plates and not the OEM style top mounts, I had specified. The second glitch was the adjustable end links were not in the box.
On a positive note, Flatout let me spec my own Springs and after some discussion with Them. I decided to go with a 14 inch 212 pound hyperco front spring and a 250 pound 12 inch rear spring. I had told them all along that I was not in a hurry to get them on, as I wanted to put some miles on the OEM suspension and go to the bronco sport off rodeo in New Hampshire before I put them on.

 

[Bluebaru]

I heard back from Flatout, first thing this morning. They are closed Mondays. They are packing up a set of adjustable end links for me now and are cutting a set of the oem type top mounts for me today also, though they then need to be coated. They have the camber plates on their BS and are happy with them.

I will be having a further discussion with them later about setup and adjustments, partly because I opted for 14" front springs, instead of the standard 12", and by opting for the 14's I am limiting my minimum lift amount. We had some discussion on this before but now that I have almost every thing, on hand, and can better see how it will all go together I'll feel better knowing as much as I can, prior to installation. I think they may have said I'd have to go up at least 1.5" and I would be happy with that or maybe even 2" but I don't want to go up more than that.

Edit, This spring combination ended up giving me, at it's minimum lift amount, a 1" lift and I initially raised it to 1.625". Of course I can always go up, which I did later

 

[galavoxx]

Are you installing them yourself? I'm looking forward to seeing the end result.

 

[Bluebaru]

Are you installing them yourself? I'm looking forward to seeing the end result.

I have a close friend that works at a dealership and is allowed to work on anything he wants after hours, he will be doing the install, while I'm there. He has done 4 sets of coil-overs for me in the past.

 

[BroncoMike]

Breathlessly awaiting your impression of this system installed. Thanks for keeping the thread updated so far!

 

[vxarctic]

If you can, try to get a side profile picture of before and after.

 

[Flatout Suspension]

Of

If you can, try to get a side profile picture of before and after.

I have this if it helps; before, lifted, lifted with wheels and tires..

(Ride height at +1.5”, kept the 3/4” rake and chose not to level it)

 

[Bluebaru]

After a recent talk with Flatout and while I am waiting for the endlinks, oem style top mount and the addition of the camber links, I just ordered, I decided to take some measurements, of the fully extended struts. Extended, there is 8.25" of piston exposed. Now I can see the possibility that the piston may extend into the strut body by 1/4" or that it doesn't go all the way in, so, lets say it has 8.25" of travel +/- .25" of travel. Flatout claims it has 2" more travel than the OEM struts, which has 7.44" of travel. Flatout says the OEM bump/rebound stops are very long and I'm assuming both companies are measuring travel to the fully compressed stops. So, I'm theorizing, that if the Flatout indeed has 2" more travel, it must have a shorter internal bump stop, which means the spring rate will ramp up faster, than the OEM, once the bump stop is engaged.
In the first pic I show the fully extended strut with both the 14" and 12" springs, I ordered. The adjustable end link mount, which Flatout says is randomly placed, during assembly, sits 3/4" higher than it's lowest possibly position and the bottom of the locknut for the spring perch sits just over 3/4" higher, than the end link mount with no preload on the 12" spring. 2nd pic, This leaves 3.25" of space before coil bind would impact travel. Eibach's 12" 200lbs spring has a stack height of 3.28", Hyperco's 3.15" and Swift's 2.8", which I find somewhat suspicious but who knows.

Assuming the link mount is in it's exact final location (an Unknown), the 14" springs I bought for the front, instead of the standard 12", will need to be compressed 1.375" to fit that space. Which means my 212lbs springs will be applying a 291.5lbs preload, at the minimum and that my 9.8" of travel springs will be reduced to, at most, 8.425". which would seem to me to be perfect. The only possible issue, I see, is what will that 291.5lbs of preload do to my ride height? Any spring will need some preload and I haven't heard if Flatout has a recommended minimum but preload is also the only way to adjust ride height, on the GR+. More preload = higher ride height.

Flatout said they thought I'd have to compress my 14's about 1" and that the minimum bump in ride ht would still be 1". I'm planning on 1.5-2.0.

As a side note, in my spring research, I found spring availability of Hyperco's very limited at this time and that was partly my reasons for getting 212lbs fronts and 250lbs rears. I'd probably have gotten the 275lbs 12" rears, had they been available. Eibach's were somewhat more available but don't offer as many rate choices and both are basically the same $ if you were to buy them separately at $97 & $95 each and, pre-Covid, could be found discounted, from their suppliers. An equally good choice for springs are Swift's but they do cost more and I'm unsure of their availability. But in my recent research I found that in their 12" Barrel springs, they consistently beat both other springs, travel wise. As Flatout is specing 12" 200lbs front and 12" 250lbs rears, as their "Comfort springs" Here are the specs for, in order, Eibach's 8.72" & 8.34", Hyperco's 8.85" & 8.36", Swift's 9.2" & 8.8". I doubt if any other springs, offer the travel of any of these three and many will sag quicker and more. If specing front springs you may want to ask yourself how much preload will you need to get to your desired ride height and if that will impact your available travel?

 

[Bluebaru]

Update. Now that my Flatout GR+ coilovers are installed, I thought an update was due. I got what is considered the "Comfort" spring rates. The reasons for that are I don't think I need the Overload springs and I hadn't yet measured the OEM Spring rates but now that I have I have two recommendations. Based on my measurements and a spring rate calculator,
IF you have a Badlands, get a Barrel shaped 14" front spring (Hyperco does not call theirs Barrel but instead (UHT) Ultra High Travel) with a rate of 200-225lbs. Near as I've been able to measure and calculate the OEM front spring is 11- 12", 160lbs spring. There is no reason not to get a 14" spring and it's increased travel should more closely match the Flatout's increased travel(?). The OEM rears are 13" and 250lbs, yet Flatout specs a 12" comfort spring of 250lbs. In my mind this doesn't match up well to their front springs. To the best of my knowledge no one makes an aftermarket 13" spring and a 14" spring might be possible with some added installation difficulties and you kept the rate at 250-275 but with High quality Barrel springs a 12" spring offers a little more travel than the OEM 13's and a 14" spring would probably mean a minimum of a 2" rear lift. I recommend a 12" rear spring with a rate of more than 50lbs higher than the fronts. Unlike most of history, spring availability is an issue, now days. That's why I ended up with a Hyperco 14" front Barrel, 212lb spring and a 12" 250lb rear spring. I did not want Eibach's Red Barrel springs, though I consider them of ~ equal quality. The only other springs I would rate in their same quality and travel range are the Swift Barrel springs which may be a little more available.
You can mix brands front and rear to get what you want and I f you don't like red springs, at least they don't show in Back. So a combination of 200lb front and a 275 rear, I'd consider a good comfort setup but also 212/275 or 225/300.

I installed mine with the camber plates and have some micro vibrations that can be felt through the steering wheel as well as a minor increase in noise, that my Mickey Thompson Baja Boss A/T's drown out at speeds higher than 40mph, though the same tires may be why I'm noticing the vibrations and they were on the car, with no issue, before the coilovers. Flatout's OEM style top mounts would probably eliminate both minor problems but with my 1.625" lift and the camber plates, I was able to get -.6* to -.8* of negative camber, in front, without the use of the supplied 14mm camber bolts, which both my mechanic and I hate and that's right in the middle of the OEM camber range.

In the rear, I opted to buy the camber arms, which did not come with my GR+ coilovers, when I bought them but do come with the GR 40's and I'm glad I did and highly recommend them for anything more than a minimum lift. The GR 40's are a bargain, on sale! I also purchased a 1" sub frame drop kit, from FordRangerLifts.com because they were on sale and much cheaper than Flatout's 1.5" but in comparing the two, Flatout's have a number of advantages and I'd recommend them for any lift > my 1.625".

I am very happy with the way the car rides and have my first off road weekend, with the Coilovers, starting tomorrow.

Pics of camber plate set to max negative, front struts set to 1.625" height increase with my 14" springs and car with 1.625 F and 1" rear. I gave my guy the wrong rear height and need to go back again to get it changed.

 

[Flatout Suspension]

Update. Now that my Flatout GR+ coilovers are installed, I thought an update was due. I got what is considered the "Comfort" spring rates. The reasons for that are I don't think I need the Overload springs and I hadn't yet measured the OEM Spring rates but now that I have I have two recommendations. Based on my measurements and a spring rate calculator,
IF you have a Badlands, get a Barrel shaped 14" front spring with a rate of 200-225lbs. Near as I've been able to measure and calculate the OEM front spring is 11- 12", 160lbs spring. There is no reason not to get a 14" spring and it's increased travel should more closely match the Flatout's increased travel(?). The OEM rears are 13" and 250lbs, yet Flatout specs a 12" comfort spring of 250lbs. In my mind this doesn't match up well to their front springs. To the best of my knowledge no one makes an aftermarket 13" spring and a 14" spring might be possible with some added installation difficulties and you kept the rate at 250-275 but with High quality Barrel springs a 12" spring offers a little more travel than the OEM 13's and a 14" spring would probably mean a minimum of a 2" rear lift. I recommend a 12" rear spring with a rate of more than 50lbs higher than the fronts. Unlike most of history, spring availability is an issue, now days. That's why I ended up with a Hyperco 14" front Barrel, 212lb spring and a 12" 250lb rear spring. I did not want Eibach's Red Barrel springs, though I consider them of ~ equal quality. The only other springs I would rate in their same quality and travel range are the Swift Barrel springs which may be a little more available.
You can mix brands front and rear to get what you want and I f you don't like red springs, at least they don't show in Back. So a combination of 200lb front and a 275 rear, I'd consider a good comfort setup but also 212/275 or 225/300.

I installed mine with the camber plates and have some micro vibrations that can be felt through the steering wheel as well as a minor increase in noise, that my Mickey Thompson Baja Boss A/T's drown out at speeds higher than 40mph, though the same tires may be why I'm noticing the vibrations and they were on the car, with no issue, before the coilovers. Flatout's OEM style top mounts would probably eliminate both minor problems but with my 1.625" lift and the camber plates, I was able to get -.6* to -.8* of negative camber, in front, without the use of the supplied 14mm camber bolts, which both my mechanic and I hate and that's right in the middle of the OEM camber range.

In the rear, I opted to buy the camber arms, which did not come with my GR+ coilovers, when I bought them but do come with the GR 40's and I'm glad I did and highly recommend them for anything more than a minimum lift. The GR 40's are a bargain, on sale! I also purchased a 1" sub frame drop kit, from FordRangerLifts.com because they were on sale and much cheaper than Flatout's 1.5" but in comparing the two, Flatout's have a number of advantages and I'd recommend them for any lift > my 1.625".

I am very happy with the way the car rides and have my first off road weekend starting tomorrow.

Pics of camber plate set to max negative, front struts set to 1.625" height increase with my 14" springs and car with 1.625 F and 1" rear. I gave my guy the wrong rear height and need to go back again to get it changed.

I’m interested to hear your thoughts on the proposed rear spring rate being higher. The 250 keeps things soft and has a load capacity of about 400lbs before seeing just under an inch of sag. On OEM wheels I noticed an improved ride quality over stockwith the shocks fully on “soft” on the knob). When I swapped to Method wheels with Falken Wildpeak, the unsprung weight forced me to go near 15/20 towards “hard” to control the suspension from rebounding too quickly. I would imagine a higher rated spring would cause an adverse effect to those running a lighter wheel/ tire.

…but we do allow for any rate that’s made and will do any spring outside of our two options.

As far as barrels, I’ve actually found another source and they will be making our springs with our own branding and color (blue). Right now we’ve been using their “house color” springs while we await ours to finish production. First Edition & Badlands uses a 14/12 spring combo, while Big Bend through Outbanks trims uses a 12/12 due to a slight travel difference.

 

[Bluebaru]

I’m interested to hear your thoughts on the proposed rear spring rate being higher. The 250 keeps things soft and has a load capacity of about 400lbs before seeing just under an inch of sag. On OEM wheels I noticed an improved ride quality over stockwith the shocks fully on “soft” on the knob). When I swapped to Method wheels with Falken Wildpeak, the unsprung weight forced me to go near 15/20 towards “hard” to control the suspension from rebounding too quickly. I would imagine a higher rated spring would cause an adverse effect to those running a lighter wheel/ tire.

…but we do allow for any rate that’s made and will do any spring outside of our two options.

As far as barrels, I’ve actually found another source and they will be making our springs with our own branding and color (blue). Right now we’ve been using their “house color” springs while we await ours to finish production. First Edition & Badlands uses a 14/12 spring combo, while Big Bend through Outbanks trims uses a 12/12 due to a slight travel difference.

This is the Spring Rate calculator I used. https://www.thespringstore.com/spring-rate-calculator.html

I used calipers, to measure the springs wire diameter, counted the number of coils and measured the outside diameter. For my Badlands the calculator said 160lbs for the fronts and 253.8lbs for the rear. So, my reasoning for a stiffer rear spring is, you have raised the front rates but not the rears. As I understand your post, you have now switched to a 14" front spring, for the Badlands? If so, I think that is an excellent choice. In looking at my OEM fronts again, the mounted length, still on the strut but off the car is 11" but of course it's compressed, on the strut and I don't actually know its free length and it may well be 14" as well. The Badlands OEM rear springs are definitely 13"!

I'm not sure what the motion ratio of the rear suspension is and I haven't attempted to calculate it yet but it's very different than the front struts, so my suggestion of a 200lbs front and a 275lbs rear may well be an underestimate of what the rear rate should be, if the OEM handling balance is to be considered. Of course we aren't running these on a race track and if a customer doesn't mind the probable increase in understeer, due to a 50lbs difference, in front to rear spring rates, instead of the OEM 90lbs but instead wants to maximize the comfort aspect, of a minimally loaded rear suspension, then a 250lbs rear spring is a good choice. I can't say the 52lbs increase (160 to 212) in the front of my Badlands has resulted in any increase in ride harshness, so I'm thinking a 25-50lbs increase in the rear would be much the same and would reduce rear sag with an increased load and improve handling, a little.

If I remember correctly your shocks are rated for 200-350lbs? What rates are you suggesting for the overload springs?

 

[RiotfunK]

What’s the difference between the three different coil over setups. Are all the shock body’s the same with different internals? Etc. website doesn’t give a lot of info

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