FlatOut Suspension ordered & Installed

[Bluebaru]

https://flatoutsuspension.net/products/broncosport-grplus?variant=42811848294635

I decided to pre-order the FlatOut GR plus suspension while the Pre-order discount on the first 5 was still available. July delivery is expected, same as my BL with a 5/30 build date. I was planning on a lift anyway, so this was good timing and saves me $$ later, I would have spent on a spacer lift and installation and eliminates some of the limitations of a spacer or spring lift.

I still have some ??? I plan to ask them, in the next few days. They say it' provides a 2" lift but I suspect that's only for the Base, BB and OB so I'm expecting a 1.25"-1.5" lift on my BL. It increases the suspension travel by 2" but I expect the same limitations, as the lift. My memory says the BL has a little more travel than the others but don't remember how much, an inch I think. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong on the travel.

I ordered with the OEM/Hybrid top mount and hope some negative camber is built in but I'll ask. I also ordered, with custom springs but with no specifics, so I'll discuss that with them also. I have a lot of experience with coilovers and plan to ask them about spring rates, relative to the BS (anyone know the rates on the BS?) and spring lengths. I suspect the spring lengths are much longer than the OEM and that the bottom spring perch will sit at or lower than the top of the tire but be much smaller in diameter. Does anyone see that as a problem? I really don't want to use spacers, to push the wheels out and away any further and the wheels I have, have a +35 offset vs the OEM +37.5. For reference, my tires are 245/65/17 and 29.8" in diameter vs the normal, for that size of 29.5" or the OEM optional 235's diameter of 29".

Other concerns I have are, Will I need to do something with the end links or is that built into the coilovers or provided for in some other way, like extensions or new links. Also, I expect I will need trailing arm spacers and doubt they are provided but I'll ask

In addition to the standard springs, they offer overload springs and custom springs, which I ordered but can almost certainly change. Not sure what constitutes and overload spring, to them but suspect it's the same length spring with a higher spring rate and probably only in the rear. As I will be using my BL primarily for trail riding, camping and carrying a lot of gear with me, I'll probably spec a slightly stiffer rear spring but maybe not as high as their overload springs.

As I've seen/heard a lot of questions about springs and what raising or lowering the spring perch does, I thought I'd post the link to this video.

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[Flatout Suspension]

Thanks for helping to get this ball rolling with us Blubaru!

We’re going to be fine tuning on our BS OB, so we’ll have everything sorted out on what you addressed above shortly.

We advertise 2” of lift but anticipate more. We like to keep expectations low, but again we’ll push ours to the limits to find out what happens for alignment at 1”, 2”, and wound all the way up.

A lot of our lift experience comes from Subaru, but we’ve done a lot of oddball stuff. We’re very excited to be jumping into the CUV market as it’s proven to be very big.

Making the parts is easy, it’s the fine tuning where we are real sticklers. We like to be able to address individual needs from the person that just wants a simple lift to the person that plans to just go absolutely nuts in Moab.

We started with out mid-level version (GR Plus) but we fully intend to offer our base (GR Lite) to our fully rally spec (GR40). The mid-level allows us to dial it up or down to the different versions with ease.

 

[Major Kong]

We like to be able to address individual needs from the person that just wants a simple lift to the person that plans to just go absolutely nuts in Moab.
[/QUOTE]

Acronym
Mother
Of
All
Broncos

 

[Bluebaru]

Thanks for helping to get this ball rolling with us Blubaru!

We’re going to be fine tuning on our BS OB, so we’ll have everything sorted out on what you addressed above shortly.

We advertise 2” of lift but anticipate more. We like to keep expectations low, but again we’ll push ours to the limits to find out what happens for alignment at 1”, 2”, and wound all the way up.

A lot of our lift experience comes from Subaru, but we’ve done a lot of oddball stuff. We’re very excited to be jumping into the CUV market as it’s proven to be very big.

Making the parts is easy, it’s the fine tuning where we are real sticklers. We like to be able to address individual needs from the person that just wants a simple lift to the person that plans to just go absolutely nuts in Moab.

We started with out mid-level version (GR Plus) but we fully intend to offer our base (GR Lite) to our fully rally spec (GR40). The mid-level allows us to dial it up or down to the different versions with ease.

Welcome to the Forum, I didn't know you were here or in Maryland. I'm sure the BS community looks forward to the more affordable GR Lite and I may be interested in the GR40, down the road.

As you are in Md. and I'm in Va. I'd be happy to work with you on getting things set up on my Badlands, when it arrives in early July and maybe get a free installation? I was an early adopter of KW coilovers, pre stainless steel, on my Mini, in 2003. I got one of the first sets of V1's followed shortly by either the first or second set of their Competition 2 Ways, in the country. I later got a Modified version of their V 3's, for my Subaru Impreza and further modified them with slight tweaks of spring rate and length.

 

[thatsmyBronco]

This is why I have been lurking on this forum.

I recently took my BSBL through Black Gap, N to S, in Big Bend NP. With a little prayer and skid plate tears, I made it though the Gap. That being said, I ended up straddling a significant portion of preceeding trail, simply because I needed maybe +0.75-1" clearance to comfortably cruise the center of the trail. I did not leave confident in our BL capabilities on future more technical trails, but am convinced the ground clearance is our first significant bottleneck.

Admittedly, we were hauling gear. 52qt cooler, 5gal of water and 5gal gasoline, camping gear for 2 people, basic recovery gear, air pump, and tools. I tore up the fabric undercoat, as expected (Ford, I know you're asking yourself why you decided to line the underbody of an offroad focused CUV with paper mâché...), and the front bash plate got intimate with a fist sized rock, but everything else is cosmetic (including permanent cactus pinstripes on all the exterior black plastic, paint is fine).

Winter Soldier, or Bucky as he prefers, is my daily driver. I live in GA, so he is also my cross country crossover to get out west or up into Appalachia. I expect to drive his power train well into the 100ks+. He will get larger tires as well in his post-lift life, currently running the OEM option 235/65/17.

I'm new to aftermarket modification world. So correct me if I am wrong, but this does look like a first of its kind product for the BS (particularly the BL).
Is the GR plus a good option for me? Should I wait for the lite? Is the GR40 something I should consider? Can I help in any way?

Thanks for helping to get this ball rolling with us Blubaru!

We’re going to be fine tuning on our BS OB, so we’ll have everything sorted out on what you addressed above shortly.

We advertise 2” of lift but anticipate more. We like to keep expectations low, but again we’ll push ours to the limits to find out what happens for alignment at 1”, 2”, and wound all the way up.

A lot of our lift experience comes from Subaru, but we’ve done a lot of oddball stuff. We’re very excited to be jumping into the CUV market as it’s proven to be very big.

Making the parts is easy, it’s the fine tuning where we are real sticklers. We like to be able to address individual needs from the person that just wants a simple lift to the person that plans to just go absolutely nuts in Moab.

We started with out mid-level version (GR Plus) but we fully intend to offer our base (GR Lite) to our fully rally spec (GR40). The mid-level allows us to dial it up or down to the different versions with ease.

 

[Flatout Suspension]

I'm new to aftermarket modification world. So correct me if I am wrong, but this does look like a first of its kind product for the BS (particularly the BL).
Is the GR plus a good option for me? Should I wait for the lite? Is the GR40 something I should consider? Can I help in any way?

I think it is, most of the stuff out there is just a strut top spacer and a rear spring spacer to give the lift. Fine for adding ground clearance, but based on what you said above, probably already feeling the limits of the OEM suspension.

Again, based on what you said with some real trail use, I would steer you towards the GR Plus. The inverted front shock is based entirely on our rally suspensions...in other words, over built. The GR Lite is more intended for the person that just wants "the look" so to speak. While they do just fine off road, you sound like you use them a lot more and put Bucky up to task quite often.

GR40s, while cool, might be a bit beyond for the $2980 price tag...but, it's your money and we'll build anything you want. The 40s give you a reservoir on the rear shock which allows more oil capacity and you'll notice more of a difference in higher speed runs and when you'd typically overheat a shock.

We started with the mid-level (though we have opened up the GR Lite for pre-order) just because it's such a solid performer.

 

[Bluebaru]

It looks like they have updated the specs but the link in the first post has the new info but just to touch on them, the kit now includes adjustable sway bar end links and comes with camber bolts.

I hope they do everything possible to max out the suspension travel, as that's very important to me and the Badlands already comes with a pretty impressive amount of travel, I think I read the other day it's 7.44". I think their shocks are limited to 8"? but if I can get all of that without some of the limitations of just a spring or spacer lift, I'll be happy.

It would be nice, as I mentioned in the first post, if the OEM/Hybrid top mount had some built in negative camber, even though camber bolts are now included, maybe just enough to make not using the the bolts an option on a minimal lift, while still being in the middle of the factory alignment specs.

Also, and this would be something Special but maybe something they would not want to try, what about making the top mount to add in some positive caster!! The reasoning for my top mount suggestions are two fold. If negative camber is built into the top mount, it will maintain the same distance between the tire and the strut, where as using a bolt will move the top of the tire closer to the strut/spring. It may not be a problem but depending on spring diameter and length, it could be. As to the caster idea, the reason is tire clearance, to the pinch weld. If you move the top of the strut back to get more positive caster, the bottom of the strut/wheel will move forward a little, meaning more clearance to the pinch weld. Maybe then 245/70/17 tires will clear, without having to modify the pinch weld. It should also center the tire better in the wheel well, on a lifted BS, as when lifting, the wheel will be moving in and back as the suspension arm pivots from the inside and rear. I would consider this a big positive sales point and a unique opportunity as no one makes one of these yet or any kind of lower control arms or bushings that could achieve a similar result.

 

[Flatout Suspension]

It looks like they have updated the specs but the link in the first post has the new info but just to touch on them, the kit now includes adjustable sway bar end links and comes with camber bolts.

That's correct, and we plan to offer the little toe arm spacers as well. Those are in development.

I hope they do everything possible to max out the suspension travel, as that's very important to me and the Badlands already comes with a pretty impressive amount of travel, I think I read the other day it's 7.44". I think their shocks are limited to 8"? but if I can get all of that without some of the limitations of just a spring or spacer lift, I'll be happy.

Maxing out travel is our ultimate goal. Your travel figures are pretty close (I've measured the shocks), but the bumpstop itself is huge and takes away from the total gross travel with a net of about 5" of free stroke. Our typical shock build is based around the end user lifting 2" so we typically add 38-50mm to the stock shock length to try and get close to a 45/55 droop/ compression balance. With our lift, you typically have to commit to at least a 1" lift to keep the compression stroke usable, but I figure most will be in the 1.5-2" lift range; much like our Subaru customers.

It would be nice, as I mentioned in the first post, if the OEM/Hybrid top mount had some built in negative camber, even though camber bolts are now included, maybe just enough to make not using the the bolts an option on a minimal lift, while still being in the middle of the factory alignment specs.

Also, and this would be something Special but maybe something they would not want to try, what about making the top mount to add in some positive caster!! The reasoning for my top mount suggestions are two fold. If negative camber is built into the top mount, it will maintain the same distance between the tire and the strut, where as using a bolt will move the top of the tire closer to the strut/spring. It may not be a problem but depending on spring diameter and length, it could be. As to the caster idea, the reason is tire clearance, to the pinch weld. If you move the top of the strut back to get more positive caster, the bottom of the strut/wheel will move forward a little, meaning more clearance to the pinch weld. Maybe then 245/70/17 tires will clear, without having to modify the pinch weld. It should also center the tire better in the wheel well, on a lifted BS, as when lifting, the wheel will be moving in and back as the suspension arm pivots from the inside and rear. I would consider this a big positive sales point and a unique opportunity as no one makes one of these yet or any kind of lower control arms or bushings that could achieve a similar result.

That may come just shortly after the initial wave of orders; something interchangeable from the initial release. We have something like what you describe now for Subaru...our offset spherical mount. For hardcore offroaders, the camber plate is nice for fine tuning, but the downside is material is removed from the plate, which makes it a bit more prone to deforming. Our offset is based a maxed out (positive) camber plate and the center is oriented into that spot, but on a fixed top plate. You can see that here, offset spherical mount. The offset was developed on an alignment rack to give -0.5* camber at 2" lift. Our offset top mount actually induces a touch of caster as well, at least on the Subaru.

One thing to mention too, on the rear...we are working with a company to hurry up on the release of their camber adjustable rear lower control arm. Paired with toe arm mount spacers, the alignment should be a breeze for those going over 1.25-1.5" where the OEM seems to max out. This part wont be included as it wont be needed for the <1.5" lifters, but it'll be available as an add-on for those that really want to get wild.

I absolutely can not wait to lift our 22 BS OBX. I have like 7 web pages open on parts to throw at it...Rough Country nudge bar, Rally Innovations skid plate, Method 701 (matte black) wheels, and 245/65/17 Falken A/T Wildpeaks. I'd like to find (what I know as) rock sliders (the are steel guards that run along the sill/ rocker to prevent any bangs from rocks). RalliTek makes them for Subaru and I may have to twist some arms as their biggest vendor. I also want to do some sort of roof basket. So many plans.

 

[Mark S.]

We advertise 2” of lift but anticipate more. We like to keep expectations low, but again we’ll push ours to the limits to find out what happens for alignment at 1”, 2”, and wound all the way up.

Can you address concerns some have expressed regarding CV joints? I read a post over at the Maverick forum from a user that was denied a warranty claim on a CV repair because a lift kit had been installed on the vehicle. Some are concerned about the increased wear on CV joints due to changes in suspension geometry.

 

[Flatout Suspension]

Can you address concerns some have expressed regarding CV joints? I read a post over at the Maverick forum from a user that was denied a warranty claim on a CV repair because a lift kit had been installed on the vehicle. Some are concerned about the increased wear on CV joints due to changes in suspension geometry.

I don’t have any hard data to offer, but one plan I have is to measure CV angle at stock height, 1/2”, 1”, 1 1/2”, and 2”. I’d be shocked if the angle at a mere 1 1/2” was stressing a CV. Even 2”. I know every car (make/ model) is different, but Subarus take 2” lifts with ease and it uses a front strut/ rear multi-link design like the BS.

Once we get into ours more we’ll investigate a 1.5” subframe drop through spacers (like these here). That brings down everything (including the rear diff).

The situation you mentioned may have had axle failure that was purely circumstantial and the lift was easy to blame.

 

[Mark S.]

I don’t have any hard data to offer, but one plan I have is to measure CV angle at stock height, 1/2”, 1”, 1 1/2”, and 2”. I’d be shocked if the angle at a mere 1 1/2” was stressing a CV. Even 2”.

That'd be great!

The situation you mentioned may have had axle failure that was purely circumstantial and the lift was easy to blame.

Yes, that's what most observers think. But it would be good to have data if such a circumstance ever arises.

Thanks again for the speedy response!

 

[Flatout Suspension]

Exciting news!!

1. We have camber adjustable rear control arms!
https://flatoutsuspension.net/products/bs-lca

2. We've added the entry-level (GR Lite) model.
https://flatoutsuspension.net/products/broncosport-grlite

 

[Meanderthal]

Exciting news!!

1. We have camber adjustable rear control arms!
https://flatoutsuspension.net/products/bs-lca

2. We've added the entry-level (GR Lite) model.
https://flatoutsuspension.net/products/broncosport-grlite

On the website, the travel increase of 2" is listed for Base, Big Bend, & Outer Banks. What does it do for the Badlands?

 

[Flatout Suspension]

On the website, the travel increase of 2" is listed for Base, Big Bend, & Outer Banks. What does it do for the Badlands?

We haven’t had a chance to measure a badlands, they are never on the lots around here (it’s why we opted for the Outer Banks). Without concrete measurements to verify, I didn’t want to quote incorrectly but we are aiming to increase 2” there as well.

From what I’ve read, the badlands has a ground clearance of 8.3” compared to 7.8” on the Base, BB, and OBX. That gives a .5” difference. But where does that .5” come from? Stiffer spring with a touch less sag (that’s my guess)? I think the travel measurements are the same, the BL may even use a slightly shorter bumpstop, but I don’t know.

 

[Bluebaru]

We haven’t had a chance to measure a badlands, they are never on the lots around here (it’s why we opted for the Outer Banks). Without concrete measurements to verify, I didn’t want to quote incorrectly but we are aiming to increase 2” there as well.

From what I’ve read, the badlands has a ground clearance of 8.3” compared to 7.8” on the Base, BB, and OBX. That gives a .5” difference. But where does that .5” come from? Stiffer spring with a touch less sag (that’s my guess)? I think the travel measurements are the same, the BL may even use a slightly shorter bumpstop, but I don’t know.

Remember, I volunteered my Badlands but it won't be here till July. Also I think your numbers are a little off. BL, with optional 235/65/17 tires has 8.8" of clearance. Standard tire on BL is a 225/65/17, so just .25" less, with the difference in tires but the BL has either stiffer or longer springs and hydraulic bump stops and I think different (softer) sway bars.

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