Blue oval fan

Big Bend
Well-Known Member
First Name
Nick
Joined
Sep 8, 2022
Threads
3
Messages
270
Reaction score
378
Location
Greenville, SC
Vehicle(s)
22 Bronco Sport
Not surprised at all. All ecoboost engines respond well to a tune. But with a tune pretty much any engine, trans, or other powertrain components would be or possibly be denied.
 

Bamsi

Badlands
Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2021
Threads
15
Messages
311
Reaction score
286
Location
Puerto Rico ??
Vehicle(s)
Bronco Sport
Not surprised at all. All ecoboost engines respond well to a tune. But with a tune pretty much any engine, trans, or other powertrain components would be or possibly be denied.
Main problem, no more warranty! If you have the money to cover for the "health expenditure" for your BSBL now, go on, if not, just wait until you have to cover it anyway. At least, is what I will do!
 

Mark S.

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Oct 30, 2021
Threads
99
Messages
5,153
Reaction score
9,591
Location
St. Jacob, IL
Vehicle(s)
2021 Badlands | 2020 Escape
Main problem, no more warranty! If you have the money to cover for the "health expenditure" for your BSBL now, go on, if not, just wait until you have to cover it anyway. At least, is what I will do!
These days I would be equally concerned about the time required rather than the warranty claim. Even if you DO have the $10K (my estimate) lying about to pay for a new engine how long will it take to get all the parts you'll need to install it?
 

SgtT11B

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
David
Joined
Jan 2, 2022
Threads
17
Messages
297
Reaction score
344
Location
El Segundo, CA
Vehicle(s)
2022 BS BL, 2020 Ford Mustang GT
With the LIvernois Motorsport tune you don't need to send in the ECU. Also Livernois does most of the tuning for Ford Performance. They also have a CARB EO number. Livernois did the tuning for the Ford Performance packs for the Mustang, Bronco and the Ranger.
 


Ksnau

Heritage
Well-Known Member
First Name
SEAN
Joined
Apr 3, 2022
Threads
11
Messages
179
Reaction score
148
Location
Phoenix
Vehicle(s)
2022 bronco sport
Yeah I don't like these ones where you have to send in the ECU or take it in and they connect to it directly or anything.

The tunes that I was always used to with Ford you would buy a $300 tuner online I usually got the SCT ones. It was the general consensus that SCT usually work better on Fords like Diablo sport work better on Dodge. I'll usually back the day HP tuners would do Chevy stuff. I know Cobb did a lot of imports stuff and there was others and basically they would send you a little basically box with a screen on it and it would contain the tunes. You plug it into your OBD2 port and you could upload tunes and you would have multiple tunes you would have like an 87 octane tune a 91 tune a 93 tune if you had 93 octane in your area because the higher the octane. Usually the more you can add ignition timing and sometimes even like cam timing and make more power generally and then when you were done or if you need to go to the dealer or something you could just take them off and then supposedly the dealer couldn't tell that it was ever tuned although there's always rumors that say oh no, they actually can tell. I don't know what the truth is but I usually buy used cars so I never worried about it cuz by the time I was putting tunes on the car was passed. It's main warranty anyways. I've never had to deal with it with a new car. The only new cars I've ever bought were these broncos sports and the full size bronco that only had for like 6 weeks.

Also, remember all they're doing to make more power is they're playing with the system to up the boost. They're adding or taking away fuel and they're adding more ignition timing. So your engines running more aggressive so it is going to be a little harder on the engine too.

I don't believe in the idea that oh if you put a supercharger on there or tune your car immediately means your engine isn't going to last as long.

But you are making the engine run more aggressive and it could possibly take life away from your engine or if you already have issues it could exacerbate those issues. So you want to be careful with that stuff and make sure if you get a tune that it's from a very reputable dealer and you probably don't want to be one of the first people you want to make sure it's been used by many people in different environments and there wasn't any issues.

On my 2014 escape that had the 2.0 engine there was a company. It was like forced performance or something and he did tunes for the 2.0 escape and I think some other cars that have the 2.0 that weren't normally considered performance cars like the focus ST, and so he would do tunes for those kind of unknown cars and he'd been around for a while and had amazing reviews and I actually went had to change my spark plugs. I did his NGK spark plugs re gapped and I had his 87 tune and his 91 tune and they did feel like they had a little more power and the transmission shifted a little better and it drove a little better and it didn't affect my fuel economy unless I was like driving harder and then of course you're going to get less gas but when I just drove normal it felt the same.

If there's a company doing tunes that way, I think I would definitely have to consider it, although I probably would wait a little longer and not do it on a car that only has 110 miles.
 

Mark S.

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Oct 30, 2021
Threads
99
Messages
5,153
Reaction score
9,591
Location
St. Jacob, IL
Vehicle(s)
2021 Badlands | 2020 Escape
I don't believe in the idea that oh if you put a supercharger on there or tune your car immediately means your engine isn't going to last as long.
Go visit the Mustang EcoBoost forum and look for the poll asking about blown engines. Last time I checked there were some 40 owners who lost an engine due to catastrophic failure. All but two has been running modified software and/or bolt-on mods meant to boost power.

Obtaining 250 reliable hp from a 2 liter production engine is a engineering feat that was unimaginable just over a decade ago. Many people think they can do better than Ford's engineers without the benefit of the millions of hours of test data they have access to. I don't see how.

If you need an engine with more power your best bet is to buy a vehicle that comes equipped with one from the factory.
 

Ksnau

Heritage
Well-Known Member
First Name
SEAN
Joined
Apr 3, 2022
Threads
11
Messages
179
Reaction score
148
Location
Phoenix
Vehicle(s)
2022 bronco sport
Go visit the Mustang EcoBoost forum and look for the poll asking about blown engines. Last time I checked there were some 40 owners who lost an engine due to catastrophic failure. All but two has been running modified software and/or bolt-on mods meant to boost power.

Obtaining 250 reliable hp from a 2 liter production engine is a engineering feat that was unimaginable just over a decade ago. Many people think they can do better than Ford's engineers without the benefit of the millions of hours of test data they have access to. I don't see how.

If you need an engine with more power your best bet is to buy a vehicle that comes equipped with one from the factory.
So I kind of have to disagree with you there because I've added way more horsepower to almost every Ford that I've owned and never had a problem. Like I had a 2007 mustang V6 that I put in m90 supercharger on from a Thunderbird and I went for making like 180 horsepower to like 260 never had a problem. I had a 2011 mustang V6 that I put a vortec V3 on. Went for making like 260 horsepower to just over 400 hp on and these numbers those are the wheels on a dyno not what the manufacturer quoted rated at the crank and we all know you can't trust those numbers. Anyways, be it because they wanted lower to help with insurance or with the '90s cobras where at first they overrated them and when people dino tuned him they got mad. So then they made the cobra terminator and they underrated it and instead of making 390 the crank it basically made that at the wheels.

And with all these vehicles I never had a problem the 07 stang I drove to 160000 miles before I traded it in and the only thing I had to replace on it was an alternator and when I traded in it was still working fine. 2011. I drove to 130,000 mi before I sold it still working fine. My Ford escape 2014 2.0. I never got it dyno tuned but I went from doing like a 15.8 second quarter mile to 14 flat it and that thing got totaled at 130,000 mi still running perfectly. Only thing I ever had to change on it was the turbo and that was only because of the wastegate linkage stretched cuz It was one of the early models before they fix that And that was actually before I started modifying it.

Sure 40 guys had bad engines. Do you know how many 2.3 liters they've made? Hundreds of thousands of each model 2 l. 2.3s the puppy. They've got them in rangers fusions focuses broncos sports escapes those are just a Ford models, not even the Mercury's the Lincoln's. And around that time some of the Ford EcoBoost engines had a bad design flaw where in the engine block between the Steelers they made a little divot for coolant to go through the help with cooling. But what happened is it's screwed up cylinder head sealing and I'm not saying that's the only thing that's happened or that's why these ones happened but these days you have as much risk of a car being bad from Ford as modifying hurting at these days.

And yeah, you're always taking at least a little bit of a risk modifying a car But how these days you're taking that risk? Just buying it anyways. The way things are going look at these 2.7 l. Broncos guys didn't even get 500 miles on them before they catastrophically.

And at least when you modify yourself you have some control about making sure it's done right.

And making that much power nowadays is not a great feat. Because Saab back in the 90s was making almost that much power out of a 2 liter. I mean I think Mercedes is getting over 400 from like a 2.0 l four banger. Chevy Silverado has a 2.7 4 cylinder that's making what 300+ horsepower and way more that than that in torque which is really what breaks stuff. Horsepower is really just a function of torque and rpm and It's not that crazy if it's done right.

I mean how even in the '90s the eclipses were making over 200 with a turbo 4. I mean Honda naturally aspirated two liters were making over 200 horsepower in the '90s. The prelude h22 made. I think 220 horsepower to the crank and the 90s. Hell Subaru has been making that much power since the 90s with their WRX's and STIs and that's on a crappy boxer engine. Make as much power as we're making now back in the '90s with a crappy boxer engine.

I don't want to just like flat out say you're wrong or anything but everything I know everything I've experienced. I've been modifying cars since 2010 and I've been working on cars all my life. It's just not like that. Those are just myths perpetuated.

And yes, I know my grammar sucks. Sometimes I have weird wording. I'm using my phone's voice recognition and yes I did actually go through and try to fix some of it My writing is just that bad.
 
Last edited:

SD_Zach

Big Bend
Member
First Name
Zach
Joined
Mar 11, 2023
Threads
1
Messages
20
Reaction score
16
Location
South Dakoa
Vehicle(s)
2023 BS Big Bend 2001 F250 PS
The problem Ford's engineers have is that they have more goals and requirements than creating more power. There are trade offs for everything. I would definitely not say tuning is bad, the majority of diesels are tuned. I have a 7.3 PSD that's tuned, the farm has a tuned 6.0, built my brother in law a tuned 6.0. Tuning is not the reason those engines blew. But when you add power you have to update corresponding parts accordingly.
 

Mark S.

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Oct 30, 2021
Threads
99
Messages
5,153
Reaction score
9,591
Location
St. Jacob, IL
Vehicle(s)
2021 Badlands | 2020 Escape
I don't want to just like flat out say you're wrong or anything...
You're not going to offend me by saying you think I'm wrong. I suspect those who are offended when their beliefs or opinions are challenged simply don't feel they are equipped to defend them.

...but everything I know everything I've experienced. I've been modifying cars since 2010 and I've been working on cars all my life. It's just not like that. Those are just myths perpetuated.
We all share our perspectives based on our personal experience. There's no question that a lot of owners are able to modify their engines to produce more power and never have a problem. There is also no question a lot of owners who do end up with engine parts spread all over the road. It's neither a myth nor a falsehood to say if you place more stress on a mechanical device you increase both wear and the likelihood of failure. How much additional wear and how much greater the likelihood of failure is anyone's guess.

Sure 40 guys had bad engines. Do you know how many 2.3 liters they've made?
Yes, Ford has made a large number of these engines, and that's my point. Assuming the owners over at the Mustang EcoBoost forum are a representative sample, the fact that of the 40+ (probably more now) reported engine failures the overwhelming majority involved owners seeking more power with modifications.

And around that time some of the Ford EcoBoost engines had a bad design flaw where in the engine block between the Steelers they made a little divot for coolant to go through the help with cooling.
The head gasket issue you're referring to involved the 2.3L used in the Focus RS, not the rest of the fleet. And none of those head gasket failures resulted in a catastrophic engine failure.

But how these days you're taking that risk? Just buying it anyways. The way things are going look at these 2.7 l. Broncos guys didn't even get 500 miles on them before they catastrophically.
I don't follow this logic. All repairs for those engine failures are paid for by Ford. If you cause an engine failure with a modification you foot the bill. This is not an effective argument to me.

I mean how even in the '90s the eclipses were making over 200 with a turbo 4. I mean Honda naturally aspirated two liters were making over 200 horsepower in the '90s. The prelude h22 made. I think 220 horsepower to the crank and the 90s. Hell Subaru has been making that much power since the 90s with their WRX's and STIs and that's on a crappy boxer engine. Make as much power as we're making now back in the '90s with a crappy boxer engine.
The Eclipse GS-T made 210 hp, not 250. If Mitsubishi could've gotten 250 hp out of its engine don't you think it would have? Honda's normally aspirated engines made decent horsepower only when revved way up (7000+ RPM if I recall), but the torque numbers sucked. Subaru's STI models were the only engines in your list that produced more power than the stock 2.0L EcoBoost, but those engines were blueprinted performance-tuned engines from the factory. These were essentially hand-built, limited production engines purpose built for rally racing. As you note, the 2.0L EcoBoost is a mass-produced engine, with millions in reliable operation around the world. Not a good comparison.

BTW, Subaru's boxer-type engines are an engineering tradeoff; the form factor keeps the weight low while allowing for increased ground clearance. Are they "crappy?" I guess that depends on your priorities. They don't make the kind of noises and vibrations gearheads are used to, but if you're looking for reliability I'd suggest they are hard to beat. In 1989 Subaru ran a trio of Legacy sedans around the Arizona Test Center track in Phoenix. All three cars maintained an average speed of 138.780 mph for 447 hours, 44 minutes and 9.887 seconds, or 18.5 days, to claim the 100,000 km FIA World Land Endurance Record. To date, no manufacturer has challenged that record.

The bottom line for me is warranty. A significant portion of the purchase price of a new car goes toward paying off warranty claims. You risk losing warranty coverage on the most expensive component of the vehicle by mucking with the PCM software. It's just not worth it to me.
 


Ksnau

Heritage
Well-Known Member
First Name
SEAN
Joined
Apr 3, 2022
Threads
11
Messages
179
Reaction score
148
Location
Phoenix
Vehicle(s)
2022 bronco sport
You're right, I didn't think about it as those 40 were just a representative sample of people on the forum and you can then apply that to the total population I'm not sure how representative of the total population that would be but understand what you're saying.

I still got to disagree with you on the Subaru boxer engine yeah it's it's a great design that allows a very short engine and that's allowed them to do their cool all-wheel drive system pretty easily but because of that they have a lot of head gasket problems and I can't give you any specifics right now. I just know that I've heard of so many reliability issues with subaru. I'm not going to try and Google to give you facts that i don't actually know that i just pulled out of my ass from online in 5 minutes.

Okay, I wasn't really thinking about the warranty aspect of it, I was just thinking about having a good engine or it has to get replaced cuz even if it's done under warranty first they have to save it. It's done under the warranty and that's not the same as it was pre-COVID and then you got to deal with the hassle of it and then that's always on your car's record. Whether someone looks at that as a negative or not, I guess depends on the person.

I guess I got to give it to you on the two liter being pretty amazing because most of the smaller turbocharged engines were mostly for higher trim levels or special like sports cars and stuff and not applied across the board to even regular cars and they have done some special things with the two liter. You know just using turbos on like everything now so they can lower the engine size and even the number of cylinders and honestly, turbo technology has progressed so much in the last decade and a lot of that is probably from Ford using them or most of their engines. I know that my turbo on my 14 escape had a problem and they've now fixed that as far as I know and being all aluminum and direct injection, and even though I don't like it incorporating the exhaust manifold into the head and I do wish that they use roller finger followers and not the direct acting mechanical buckets which they actually took from I think the Supra and the skyline engine used that type of technology but basically the power to cubic inches to efficiency in miles per gallon is pretty impressive.

So I guess I mostly agree with you. But I still believe that you can really safely modify your cars and make more power out of them and not have any problems. And it's not that big of a risk which i think was my main point but yes, anytime that you increase the power of an engine you are putting more strain on it but most engines are built with better stuff. I mean, everything has a forged crank and rods pretty much now and the pistons are much better. High silicon units and just the design that goes into making them to fit these direct injection engines is. It's pretty cool if you look at them, except they kind of look like a toilet.

And even older engines I mean my brother had. I think it was a 1990 Camaro with the LT1 or whenever they put that in and he was shooting nitrous into that thing for years and it stayed together and he used to drag race it on the weekend sometimes but I mean we you know had our nitrous controller and we would ramp it up and we used a window switch and tuned it properly and made sure we had high octane gas in it and all the stuff you're supposed to do if you're modifying your car.

We didn't just put a big fogger kid on it. Hit the button and hope.

Also, that head gasket issue was more than just the two three I believe. I'm sure I read about the gasket issue I was talking about. At least was on a lot of the smaller EcoBoost engines where they put this like divot between the cylinders and it caused a bunch of problems and they only fixed it. I think in 2020 and it wasn't just the two three. I'm really sure about that I'm pretty sure we're talking about the same thing. I just think it applied to more engines but it shouldn't apply to any bronco sport.

Anyways, I'm glad you made me think about that is a good talk. So yeah, you really do have to be careful modifying your car and there is some risk. But if you do it the right way and don't rush and make sure your car doesn't already have problems you're almost always going to be okay.
 

Mark S.

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Oct 30, 2021
Threads
99
Messages
5,153
Reaction score
9,591
Location
St. Jacob, IL
Vehicle(s)
2021 Badlands | 2020 Escape
Also, that head gasket issue was more than just the two three I believe. I'm sure I read about the gasket issue I was talking about.
You may be referring to a class-action suit filed back in 2020 by a couple of enterprising lawyers. IIRC, the head gasket failures on these engines wasn't the reason for the engine failure. The original plaintiffs damaged their engines by running them without coolant, then demanded Ford give them a new engine. Note that not all of these engines failed; some of these owners continued to drive their cars with failed head gaskets, probably following their lawyer's advice.

Many newer engines feature an open deck design that allows coolant to circulate around the cylinder sleeves. Head gaskets are critical components on these designs, and as far as I know Ford's EcoBoost engines do not experience head gasket failures at a rate higher than other manufacturers using open deck blocks.

This is a reminder to everyone that although the engines in your cars are orders of magnitude more reliable than those produced a couple of decades ago, they are still mechanical devices that need periodic maintenance and inspection. Open the hood and check fluid levels at least weekly. Fluid loss is one of the earliest symptoms of an engine problem. If the owners in the class-action lawsuit mentioned above had checked their engine's coolant level more often they would likely have noticed the loss of coolant BEFORE their warranty expired, and gotten repairs made at no cost.
 

SgtT11B

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
David
Joined
Jan 2, 2022
Threads
17
Messages
297
Reaction score
344
Location
El Segundo, CA
Vehicle(s)
2022 BS BL, 2020 Ford Mustang GT
Go visit the Mustang EcoBoost forum and look for the poll asking about blown engines. Last time I checked there were some 40 owners who lost an engine due to catastrophic failure. All but two has been running modified software and/or bolt-on mods meant to boost power.

Obtaining 250 reliable hp from a 2 liter production engine is a engineering feat that was unimaginable just over a decade ago. Many people think they can do better than Ford's engineers without the benefit of the millions of hours of test data they have access to. I don't see how.

If you need an engine with more power your best bet is to buy a vehicle that comes equipped with one from the factory.

The difference is that these Mustang EB owners push it to the edge. They are trying to get 400rwhp out of a 2.3 L engine. I am on the Mustang sites as I own a 2020 Mustang GT, hey bring meaning to Ecoboom. That being said, if I was to do this it would be with a tuner that has some Ford engineering back ground. Livernois once again does the tuning for Ford Performance. They usually add more low end torque and midrange while the topend is just a tad better. What I find more interesting with the LIvernois tune is the fact it also helps with the transmission shift strategies. My brother has a Ford Performance tune on his Ranger and he absolutely loves it. The fact it is warrantied and with a CARB EO# is just icing on the cake.

I find my BS BL peppy enough, its not a Mustang and it doesn't really need anymore power.
 
Last edited:

Mark S.

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Oct 30, 2021
Threads
99
Messages
5,153
Reaction score
9,591
Location
St. Jacob, IL
Vehicle(s)
2021 Badlands | 2020 Escape
My brother has a Ford Performance tune on his Ranger and he absolutely loves it. The fact it is warrantied and with a CARB EO# is just icing on the cake.
I don't believe Ford Performance offers a calibration for the Bronco Sport...yet. And the warranty Ford Performance offers with its calibrations are good only for the first 3yrs or 36K miles from vehicle date of purchase, not installation date. If you already have more than 36K on your car you not eligible for a warranty.

I find my BS BL peppy enough, its not a Mustang and it doesn't really need anymore power.
On that we are agreed!
 

SgtT11B

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
David
Joined
Jan 2, 2022
Threads
17
Messages
297
Reaction score
344
Location
El Segundo, CA
Vehicle(s)
2022 BS BL, 2020 Ford Mustang GT
I don't believe Ford Performance offers a calibration for the Bronco Sport...yet. And the warranty Ford Performance offers with its calibrations are good only for the first 3yrs or 36K miles from vehicle date of purchase, not installation date. If you already have more than 36K on your car you not eligible for a warranty.


On that we are agreed!

No they don't I was referring to the tune on my bro's Ranger Tremor. Which is done by Livernois Motorsports as my Ford Performance tune for my 2020 Mustang GT. I wouldn't get tune unless it was released by Ford Performance.
Sponsored

 
 




Top