California to End Sale of Gas Powered Cars by 2035

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Cyclone Cowboy

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"California Governor orders state regulators to end all sale of new gas-powered cars and trucks by 2035." (KTLA)

Well, I'm assuming there will be an electric Bronco sooner than later.
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Cyclone Cowboy

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The sad thing is that global warming has become a political football. China emits about 10,357 million metric tons per year, compared to about 5,414 million metric tons per year by the US. Nations with high levels of poverty and little or no regulations combine to spew out millions of tons, like India. China is still building coal-powered electrical plants at an alarming rate. I do personally believe in Global Warming, and warming is caused in part by mankind. The reality is that we can drive all the electric cars we want, make the horrible Green Deal a reality, leading to economic disaster, but the net benefit to our climate is zero -- until every Nation cuts emissions by 25-50 percent -- and that is not happening anytime soon in a global society of greed and poverty. Just cutting emissions in CA won't do anything because drought conditions there are caused by global shifts in the jet stream and ocean currents.
 

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The sad thing is that global warming has become a political football. China emits about 10,357 million metric tons per year, compared to about 5,414 million metric tons per year by the US. Nations with high levels of poverty and little or no regulations combine to spew out millions of tons, like India. China is still building coal-powered electrical plants at an alarming rate. I do personally believe in Global Warming, and warming is caused in part by mankind. The reality is that we can drive all the electric cars we want, make the horrible Green Deal a reality, leading to economic disaster, but the net benefit to our climate is zero -- until every Nation cuts emissions by 25-50 percent -- and that is not happening anytime soon in a global society of greed and poverty. Just cutting emissions in CA won't do anything because drought conditions there are caused by global shifts in the jet stream and ocean currents.
I know nothing of Climate science and I do agree with you. However... I'll be dead by the time global warming will put us in an ecological disaster, most likely my great great grand kids will have to deal with it... I do hope that there will actually be better solutions for that in the future.. and by the time it actually comes

Though, as of right now there are no viable solutions that are cost effective, easily mass produced, and efficiently replace non green solutions. Until battery technology can be improved both efficiency and recycling wise... I'm going to have to keep with a gas guzzler/drinker/sipper...

When someone makes a mid size 4x4 SUV with at least 270hp, 300lbf, 9" of clearance, hybrid that can kind if "off-road"... for under $45K, I'm in. I won't buy an electric with the same specs unless they get 1000 miles off one charge. I can't afford... and not willing to go above that $45k price either.
 
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Cyclone Cowboy

Cyclone Cowboy

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We will eventually run out of fossil fuels. Before then, the price of gas will become so high that electric will be the only alternative, or foot-powered Flintstone cars. Then there is the medium to high possibility that a large volcano will erupt and the resulting ash cloud will cool earth. This has happened many times in earth's history.

BTW, I got a "OP" or outstanding personality award on my icon. Thank you.
 


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Cyclone Cowboy

Cyclone Cowboy

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FYI, several automakers have developed a battery pack that is water-proof. That is a big step in the right direction for electric 4x4's. I suppose you could pull a gasoline generator behind the electric 4x4 and go anywhere you wanted.
 

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I know nothing of Climate science and I do agree with you. However... I'll be dead by the time global warming will put us in an ecological disaster, most likely my great great grand kids will have to deal with it... I do hope that there will actually be better solutions for that in the future.. and by the time it actually comes

Though, as of right now there are no viable solutions that are cost effective, easily mass produced, and efficiently replace non green solutions. Until battery technology can be improved both efficiency and recycling wise... I'm going to have to keep with a gas guzzler/drinker/sipper...

When someone makes a mid size 4x4 SUV with at least 270hp, 300lbf, 9" of clearance, hybrid that can kind if "off-road"... for under $45K, I'm in. I won't buy an electric with the same specs unless they get 1000 miles off one charge. I can't afford... and not willing to go above that $45k price either.
Tesla is working hard on the total solution for the reduction/replacement of fossil fuel which California (and the EU) is pushing for. From renewable energy technologies to local/central battery power plants, $25k electric cars. 500 to 1000 mile range, etc. I think it's exciting.

Highlights from Battery Day give you a flavor of where they are today and where they are going very soon.





Sandy Munro, who's an auto manufacturing expert, who spend many years at Ford, was pretty blown away at Tesla's progress. His opinion is pretty interesting.

https://insideevs.com/features/446068/sandy-munro-explains-tesla-battery-day/
 

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Elon musk, the CEO of space x and Tesla. There is a common theme here to this belief system that has garnered many followers thanks to the entertainment industry. The common theme is that we are destroying earth just by existing. He is “developing” tech to both be “green” and leave this place to farm potatoes on Mars. He is disguising communism with “sustainable progress”. He makes money off the faith in global warming. The same as bill gates will make money off the faith in a antivirus software for our “personal computer”.

Did I get off topic again? I don’t think I am. I can cite multiple articles throughout the past 3 decades stating that we will have humans on Mars by the year 20XX. No different from ending the sale of gas powered cars. If you think it’s different, you’re not paying attention to the common reason why we need these two things: green and space travel.
Mars can be construed as a backup plan If the green electrification plan is too little, too late. Why not mars? SpaceX has the money, it's a significant engineering challenge and it would be a nice legacy whether entirely successful or not.. Pretty much the story of Elon's life.

His push for green electrification and the recent California buy-in to promote this, it will be exciting to watch the development. I just hope we limit the brown-blackouts due to the radical changes in the coming decades.

Remember crashing Falcon 9 boosters just a few years back? But now, reliable, reusable and game changing cost with competitors racing to catch up. Even Elon naysayers were pretty proud to watch those two, US designed/made boosters land in unison. Similar to the improvements being made his electric car manufacturing and similar to his game plan for worldwide, green electrification. I'm sure there will be a lot of bumps in the road that Tesla (and Cali) will have to bare a lot of criticism, but the final resolved goal will be pretty darn awesome. Baby steps to perfection.
 

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I've seen the Tesla Battery Highlights..

But there is still a few problems with it...

1) Recycling used batteries. Even at the time of replacement or death of a battery.. there is still about 70% of usable lithium left. However with disassembly being a bit dangerous, and recycling non profitable... most of it is being disposed of.. improperly

2) Automobiles make up 14% of greenhouse gases... the bigger majority is electricity/heat... We can't make a battery big enough to replace that.. and home battery/solar generation systems are a) too expensive, b) not efficient and c) easily damaged.

Do I want the human race to be able to live greener, keep the planet cleaner?

Yes I do... but technology is not there yet.. It probably wont be in the next 50 years.. but that's just one person's opinion.
 

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Recycling happens right now for Tesla batteries. With the value and the long life, there will certainly be market for them to be cashed in or reused. The large battery cells will only make recycling more efficient.

The battery day presentation was pretty clear that this is not just for autos. It is to replace all fossil fuel produced power. Gas, coal, diesel power plants included. Many teraWatts worth of batteries and corresponding renewable power prodution.

As for PV solar being too expensive, at the consumer level it usually pays for itself in under 10 years. Mine will pay for itself in 3 years because I installed it. Even on the industrial level the numbers are competitive. Of course, the battery plants will increase the cost of green power, but a main point of battery day was that Tesla has redesigned the power battery, streamlined the production path and plan to increase production of batteries >100 fold making them ready for primetime much earlier than they otherwise would be.

California is essentially volunteering to be a test bed. It will be interesting how problems are solved because solar varies a lot from day to day, season to season. Hydro and geothermal ramp up may also be part of the equation.
 
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So the environment is not a problem and certainly not your problem. All fake news. If that is your stance, there is no argument.

Nevertheless, even in Texas, a customer pays a whole lot more than raw power costs for power at their door. I am saving $1,500 a year from solar that cost me $4,500 to install myself. Freemarket for me says that my lowest cost is to install solar. Many are coming to a similar conclusion.
 

chaseAbronco

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Phew trying to make sense of this thread - yes supply and demand can help us make decisions (and way above my knowledge) but I would be a fool not to imagine other people have their own agenda to make a buck, perhaps even inhibiting innovation for instant gratification as well as not taking into account negative costs associated with the end of lifecycle or environmental/social consequences of other energy forms, whatever they may be...

In addition to the Triple Bottom Line, if things are skewed one way or another, a certain set of rules/principles/regulations (in this case gov. policy but it doesn't always have to be the gov. driven) can aid in ensuring performance measures align with needs and wants of ecological, economical, and socio-cultural realms for both present and future generations.

Otherwise, tragedy of the commons tends to be on a loop. Without any future driven policy (driven by demand this go around), we'll just be in a complacent reactionary state. Kuddos for innovation and a willingness to urge others to reimagine; supply and demand are shaping politics in California, hopefully a nudge in the right direction that also, get this, will reduce costs for electric vehicles.

*just went on a whim and started typing ahaha. On other info in thread, quite a bit of information on whether U.S. and other First World countries can be leaders, and not just condemn other countries for carbon emissions/pollution when First World countries benefited from doing the same and can aid in sharing costs of modernizing and bringing technology to other parts of the world... Pointing the finger and saying not fair is not going to solve anything.

*However, BS looks bad a** and will fit my needs until another afforded option is more appealing haha!
 
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chaseAbronco

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Good read! Yes, lots more to global warming and impacts to our world than solely carbon emissions from vehicles: globalization, production, and consumption of natural resources, and the loss of habitat and acidification of our oceans have greatly impacted our biosphere. Carbon emissions along with actions you listed contribute to devastating our ecosystems, and I agree it's just one aspect. And yes, probably tangible and a target goal that may be both ambitious and attractive politically to at least start reducing carbon emissions from vehicles. Still good idea to curb SOME carbon emissions that have negative impacts (again, other issues, need other solutions - better urban planning, forest management, etc.). For the most part, agree with quite a bit.

It's not clear from your post, that government policy, the public, or the private sector should be leading the charge? Innovation? Policy? If neither one, then who??? And all are monetarily influenced by investors & elected officials/lobbyists, as well as our own beliefs/attitudes and how we consume information and contribute to the solution...and yes, that should be for the needs/wants of present while NOT compromising the needs/wants of future generations.

I don't think we're that far off from one another or where ever this thread started and headed, haha, I just watched the battery video, interesting.
 
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<sigh>
As someone who *does* know the math, and who *does* understand the science involved, global warming is a real thing - but it is very emphatically not a "belief system." Data does not give two sh*ts whether you "believe" it or not. Data can be manipulated - and climate data certainly is (NOAA and UKMet both acknowledge this point). So, if this offends your "belief," whatever; that does not matter in the slightest. What does matter is that if climate change is happening because of rising CO2 in the atmosphere, then we should see downstream effects. And, guess what? Those effects are happening, including oceanic acidification (and its effects), and so on.

For people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos, becoming a multi-planetary species is a sincerely held vision because they definitely believe that human life on earth will be threatened from within or without, whether because of man-made ecological disasters, a supervolcano eruption, asteroid impact, or any similar catastrophe. They're putting their money and resources where their mouths are. Their efforts to get to Mars have no impact on anyone on this thread at the moment.

As for California, the point about that state's effort being irrelevant in terms of global impact is true; but it's also true that since it has the 5th largest economy in the world and the most people in the U.S., their policies carry a lot of weight in this country and globally. EVs are rapidly reaching cost parity with ICE vehicles in terms of $/kWh and will continue to improve. We're at a technological tipping point, or nearly so, where EVs will actually become lower cost. They're already higher performance in everything except range and convenience; they're also exceeding ICEs in terms of total lifetime ownership costs. By the time 2035 rolls around, it won't even be a contest.
 

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So the environment is not a problem and certainly not your problem. All fake news. If that is your stance, there is no argument.

Nevertheless, even in Texas, a customer pays a whole lot more than raw power costs for power at their door. I am saving $1,500 a year from solar that cost me $4,500 to install myself. Freemarket for me says that my lowest cost is to install solar. Many are coming to a similar conclusion.

I'm not being rhetoric as I'm genuinely curious about your setup. Can you link some of the equipment you are using and also state how much foot print you needed to get to the cost you are at?

Also have you had any issues with the system and what about the maintenance and replacement plans factored into owning the solar setup?

I mean.. if self install will save $1500/year but needs a whole rebuild in 5 years.. yes it's true that overall I would be saving but at the cost of additional time and landfill space. At that point it would not be feasible in my particular case.

Also is there a drop in efficiency rate of energy conversion every year? what's the life expectancy going to be at?
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