Badlands 2.0 Transmission Clutch Failure

[gatornek]

I've never had to deal with a major warranty repair like this in my life. Never a better time than the present, I guess.

So on Friday, in the middle of my drive back from the office in the evening, the vehicle began to stall out at stops and very low rpms. I had to restart the vehicle numerous times in traffic. I took me a while to figure out what was going on, but I finally figured out that I just had to drive it back like it was a manual (popping it into netural anytime i had to slow down/stop). NO CEL.

Saturday morning, woke up nice and early and dropped it off at the local dealership. I was so determined, since there was NO CEL, that it was the PCM recall that I had avoided getting out of sheer laziness. It essentially seemed like "Description 2" of the bulletin. So I didn't stress.

Today, got the call. It's not "officially" diagnosed yet, but they are saying clutch failure and now they wanna possibly take apart my transmission.

Beyond disappointment is what I am experiencing. I already reached out on Ford's 800 line and opened up a customer service case. I'm sure @Ford Motor Company will see this and request for a DM at some point. I hope they are sincere in their want to help and not here for show. I am not looking forward to either being without a vehicle for a lengthy amount of time nor having a rebuilt transmission afterwards. The Mustang was always what drew me to Ford. I made a pivot a year and a half ago. Tried something different after the 2.3 wowed me. But that 2.3 had a German built 6 speed AT.

I will keep this thread updated and if anyone has any constructive advice, I'm all ears. Thank you.


PS - I just wanna repeat that it they still don't know SPECIFICALLY what it is, and won't know until they take apart the tranny. We are just guesssing its a clutch failure.

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[Aviator]

I can’t see your year so could you post year and mileage. Thanks

 

[magicbus]

I wouldn't worry about the rebuilt transmission once they finally get parts and get it done. I had a brand new 1994 Chevy Tahoe, the year when they changed the name from the original K-5 Blazer but kept the original K-5 mechanics. One day in traffic I pushed the gas and ... Nothing except revs from the engine. Had it towed to the dealer and when I went in to talk to the service manager I saw 10 shipping "suitcases" shaped like transmissions. He acknowledged they were Tahoe replacements under a State Police contract. I was to get a rebuilt one. Anyway, my rebuilt lasted 80K miles before I sold it.

 

[gatornek]

Update:

Good morning. After a week of sitting at the dealership, for them to have enough mechanic time, to get enough information to put in the warranty claim, we are looking at a possible torque converter, and MAYBE, not the clutch.

However, its still premature, and the transmission hasn't even been cracked open as of writing this. But service rep tells me they also see errors in the valve body. If on miracle, simply replacing the torque converter fixes the issue, then that would be that. But I think that's doubtful. A transmisison is so interlinked, that a failure in one area, almost undoubtedly causes a failure elsewhere. They are still performing tests now.

I've been down a rabbit hole lately with the 8F35 and single one way clutch operation. I definitely have initial theories on why this happened, but also feel that in NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM should it have actually happened to a vehicle touted to do what it does, at 23K miles.

I'll tell you what. Thank God I didn't tune. I was waiting until the Christmas season until I had a bit more disposable income, but never now. This transmission is not good enough to handle a performance tune. But I'll leave it at that for now.

I'm going to go ahead and wait for the warranty process to play out, the vehicle to be fully and accurately diagnosed, and its back at 100% operation, before I give my full addendum to the OP and the ins and outs of what other 8F35 users should be wary of. That's all I got for this thread until the torque converter comes in next week. You can save your questions for then if you want.

 

[NMhunter]

I had a Chevy with that issue. There is a solinoid that pushes a pin that makes a mechanical connection between the plates in the transmission to get better highway mileage. The pin was sticking and not allowing the plates to disingage. It was less than $300 to fix. Hopefully, yours will be something simple. But, these new vehicles are very complicated, and I don't pretend to understand how the transmission works.

 

[gatornek]

Torque converter, which I was told would be here as of yesterday, was not received, and now the part is considered 'out of stock' with no ETD.
Service rep says they are trying to make the case for the full transmission then.
I'm not offering anything else at this moment, because I'm really trying to maintain my stress level at an even keel. My life in the rental car continues.

I'll offer the next update, when I have the next batch of SOLID information.

 

[gatornek]

I know u don’t want to talk about it but were you provided insight on what caused the torque converter to fail? If you don’t know that’s fine no response needed then.

In order to provide my full thoughts, I'm going to need for it to be fully diagnosed. Otherwise, it really is just spitballing. Apologies. Trust me. No one is more anxious than me.

 

[gatornek]

Alright, here we go. I don't have much in terms of a resolution yet, but you're about to get my rant.

The @Ford Motor Company was diligent in immediately getting some initial information from me, and now I"m dealing with the 'Customer Concern' people via email, and it really doesn't seem to me that they are able to offer much ...as they keep referring me back to the dealer.

As of now, the most immediate thing I have to start doing is reviewing Florida Lemon Laws. It's something I've never even sniffed at before, but it seems like I am at the mercy of the dealership, with no visible end in sight. I am going on a month now of rental life in a Ford Escape ST line, and let me tell you...I hate it. Sorry fellas if any of y'all are fans. Getting information out of my service rep is like pulling teeth. But all I have, is that I am awaiting a full transmission unit which is on BACKORDER.

Exactly how long they are willing to pay the car rental until this gets resolved is beyond me. I don't know how such a common part can be so difficult to retain. But this is where we are at with Ford. And boy, oh boy, did I make a mistake a year and half ago.

My Dad was a Ford guy. And my first car was a fox body Mustang. I was in love. But the lure of hassle free Japanese automotives, was too good to pass up, and I was a Toyota/Honda guy for a long time. In 2015, I took the 2.3 Ecoboost Mustang on a road trip and fell in love again. I immediately got one for myself and proceeded to make one heck of a personalized, sleek car. Tune, wastegate change, exchaust swap out, complete charge pipe swap out, short gapped plugs, etc, etc, etc. Last year, at 90K miles, that engine was still purring like a racecar. 0-60 in 5.5, without even trying. And never an issue. Only had an issue with the evaporator in the AC.

But when my daughter was born in 2020, things changed, and my wife and I needed a new road trip vehicle that could accommodate the 3 of us, so I cashed in on what was still a very good trade value on that Mustang and PIVOTED BLIND to the Bronco. Fairly blind, I must admit in hindsight. I keyed in on the engine. I was like, if I can make that Mustang purr, I can do it with any Ford Ecoboost. I thought I knew the secret sauce, and still feel I do. But what I really did not pay mind to, was the fact that my Mustang had a German built 'old school' 6 speed RWD transmission. This 8F35 is rinky dink.

So like I said, this was supposed to be my family's road trip car and that we did. Last November, a near 2 week trip to Great Smoky Mountains. Here is where I believe the problem could have began ... at least for me and my driving habits ... maybe.

With wet roads and low vis on the Blue Ridge Parkway, I cruise controlled at 35 and engine braked, like I never engine braked before. But again, at fairly low speeds. I thought this much safer than using the disk brakes on some of these hairpin turns. We can debate that ad nauseum, but whatever, it is what it is. And what I found from then on, was the Badlands seemed like a champ. I'm pretty sure there is a write up floating around here with me glowing about how it ferried my family through the mountains. Unfortunately, this got me into a habit of just always being in cruise control, at least if I was on a highway, or even a straight away road. I even thought it better on gas.

There was another trip in the Spring, and then again, just now, most recently during Labor Day weekend. So for about 23K miles I've been a cruise control engine braker. Now on top of this, I will mention that I have the RTR rims. They are a bit bigger than stock, but they are actually lighter. Its one of the reasons I chose them. But the tire is a bit heavier than stock, so the entire setup at each wheel is a few pountds heavier than stock. But again, these are "Bronco Sport advertised" wheels. Backed by Ford.

This last trip was also a bit of a monster, in terms that it involved camping, beach, Orlando, and a work conference, over the period of 10 days. My point is that the Badlands was about as weighed down as its gonna get. But that's all in the cabin, and directly ON the hitch with my "sloggin cooler" hitch. At absolutely no point, did I ever tow ANYTHING with this vehicle. ON the roof, I went back and calculated again, just to be sure, and absolutely no more than 150 pounds. To the tee.

About two weeks after I got back from this last trip is when the issue happened.

Although I haven't' seen the repair order or spoken with the mechanic, I'm almost certain that the culprit was a locked pin on the clutch disk within the torque converter that doesn't allow it to separate from the rest of the transmission at low speed/idle. Probably, most likely, from overheating the transmission. Let's not forget that I was doing a lot of day driving in the sweltering Florida September. The little information that I did get from my service rep is that the mechanic did zone in on the torque converter.

The issue could boil down to something as simple as this.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/115904596137
Again, this is just my own supposition and research. Nothing confirmed, other than a "backorder" transmission unit.

So there's two major gripes. One that I already knew about and I will again give you guys fair warning, and another that maybe some of you Badlands owners are not aware of.

1. Go get your automatic transmission fluid changed at 30-50K max. It's not lifetime. But this has nothing to do with my issue, as my engine is 23K miles. And yes, I would've done it at 30K. I've mentioned this on this forum multiple occasions. Won't debate it.

2. Dear Badlands owners: Your engine has the possibility of producing more torque than the 8F35 can handle.

The 2.0 in the Bronco Sport, accordingly to very reputable people like Cobb is capable of putting out 270ft/lbs or 366 n/m of torque at peak.

However, just looking at some tear down videos of the 8F35, it doesn't seem that robust. The selectable one way clutch design is kind of an easy way to simply cut down on parts and make the transmission lighter. The transmission limits are confirmed by the people at transmission digest, however reputable that may be.

Ford Motor Company and the Hat Trick - Transmission Digest

So yeah, I'm really upset with this. Like I said, I got this as a road trip vehicle, and I have ZERO confidence moving forward of being able to take this anywhere and not get stranded.

But first things first, Ford! Get my dam brand new car fixed, and get it back to me.

Honestly, my rant is hopefully just a warning to the rest of you Badlands owners. What I need is some direction. I'm about to call my own versions of 'Cousin Vinny'. Or is this all just how this sh!t is now? People have to be patient, and hopefully I get a working car back at some point. Until then, just Enjoy Escape life? Do I have options??? Let me know.

 

[gatornek]

Update: I have firm confirmation from the dealership that the transmission finally arrived yesterday (over a month on order!).

Now lets see how long they take to get me a 100% properly functioning drivetrain.

 

[gatornek]

FINALLY got the Ape back yesterday. What an awful and slow process this has been.

I'm fairly thankful that my local Ford dealer took the warranty work even though I didn't purchase the vehicle there. However, I'm almost certain that's also why things were fairly slow for me. Info was extremely sparse from everyone involved in this process ... even from Ford "Customer Service", which is fairly non existent.

However, I was finally able to speak with the mechanic and he assures me that he feels it was a factory defect type situation. He's not 100% sure if it was the torque converter or the valve body because he never took apart the transmission. He feels I should be good to go. He voiced no concern with engine braking, my RTR wheels, or a roof rack loaded at its prescribed weight.

I never got any push back from you guys on those theories and the information I dug up here. So I'm not sure if you guys are buying it or not.

I'll be honest, I dug as hard as I could, but just could not seem to find a whole lot of similar issues on the 8F35, even on Maverick or Edge/Escape forums. Most of what turns up is usually to the 'herky jerky' nature of it. This does seem to be a bit of an outlier. But I also just feel that the timing of that trip, along with the discovery of the limitations of the transmission versus the 2.0 engine are too big to ignore.

Like I mentioned, tuning is completely out the door for me. And further, I would highly suggest to all 2.0 Bronco Sport owners that they are a bit careful on their WOTS, particularly if they are tuned. I almost felt I sensed there were a couple of times, fully loaded and cruising at say 65mp, the transmission make a noise that did not sound good when I decided to WOT it to 85/90 to get ahead of a semi. Again, outside of being a bit aggressive, I would never have thought this was something to be wary of at 23K miles.

The vehicle is driving fine thus far. Like nothing happened. I cracked the hood open, and gave it an eye-down for missing clips and such, but everything looks in good order. I'm going to try and get underneath this weekend. I may hold on to it a bit longer, so I can pay it off and do a private sell. But yes, I won't be holding on to this vehicle past the 60K. I know I can get the extended warranty. But I'm sure I'm out. Just maybe not this year or next. Not sure. Lets see if the wife pines for a new car. That could change things quickly. LOL.

 

[RSH]

Part of the "slowness" with warranty work is the diagnosis. Ford is not in the business of providing free parts and labor and all the "boxes" need to be checked before any forward progress can proceed.
Now that you have your Sport back it's time to get back to normal and enjoy the Sport for what you initally purchased it for.

 

[Mark S.]

He voiced no concern with engine braking,

Depending on driver technique, engine braking with an auto transmission should not be a cause for concern. Any gear shift--up or down--will incur wear to the clutch, with shifts requiring greater RPM change causing more wear. For example, a downshift resulting in a 2000-RPM increase will put more stress on the clutch than an upshift resulting in a 500-RPM decrease. If that doesn't make sense to you just know that downshifting has the potential to cause more wear on the clutches if the driver selects a lower gear that requires a large change in RPM--say a downshift from 7th gear to 2nd gear. Once in a lower gear, however, there is no additional stress on transmission components; you can coast downhill at 4000 RPM in 2nd gear all day long with no worry of transmission damage.

 

[MoFoCo]

Unfortunately I think you were just unlucky with this transmission. I'm really glad I got the 2.0L, I see very few powertrain problems posted here compared to the 1.5L.

At least it failed under warranty!

 

[Dude]

Once in a lower gear, however, there is no additional stress on transmission components; you can coast downhill at 4000 RPM in 2nd gear all day long with no worry of transmission damage.

That’s interesting.. this last part seems not as intuitive as the other statements in your post. Just curious, is there a technical reason for no additional stress while coasting downhill at 4000 RPM in 2nd gear all day long? It would seem like this would be stressful to the transmission, isn’t there at least additional heat generated under that condition? (as opposed to leaving it in overdrive with reduced rpm and let the brakes take the stress)

 

[gatornek]

Unfortunately I think you were just unlucky with this transmission. I'm really glad I got the 2.0L, I see very few powertrain problems posted here compared to the 1.5L.

At least it failed under warranty!

I've definitely been a fan of the engine. Was on the precipice of tuning with Cobb. But I am now wary of the 8F35. If this is simply a commuter vehicle, and your tach basically never goes above 5K, I think there is no need for worries. Like you and I both mention, not much history with this happening on the 8F35. But I also don't know of another application of the 8F35 that is touted as 'off road performance' like the BS Badlands. With that type of characterization, people should simply only be more mindful that the peak performance of the engine vs what the 8F35 is designed to handle, not might exactly mesh up.

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